FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Eamon O'carroll |
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| Quote: binxterboy "i can't knock preccy when we were in a spot of bother in the second half he took 3 of the drives in a set of six, from our own line'"
Correct
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "LOL at this thread. Some of those calling for change are the first to cry "scapegoat" in other situations. What a joke.
BTW, Sam was awful in attack bar 1 break. Plus he knocked on. Plus he kicked out on the full. Should we drop him? Of course not.
It ain't broke, so don't try to fix it.
Correct,apart from I'd like to add that I don't see what Prescott did wrong on Saturday that those calling for him to be dropped obviously saw?
He has "Loose Carry" yet his error rate in the 1st 2 x games was less than 1/2 that of Coley's? And in fact 1 of those errors was a blatant strip against HKR.
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "LOL at this thread. Some of those calling for change are the first to cry "scapegoat" in other situations. What a joke.
BTW, Sam was awful in attack bar 1 break. Plus he knocked on. Plus he kicked out on the full. Should we drop him? Of course not.
It ain't broke, so don't try to fix it.
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "I would give O'Carroll a game next week. Sadly for Prescott his handling errors are a regular occurrence. For some reason he does carry the ball very loosely and becomes an easy target for the tackler. It's something I'm sure that can be fixed, but needs sorting and quickly.'"
That's interesting because these 'regular' handling errors seem to happen once per game, the same number as just about all our forwards. He made one handling error against Wire and yet some people seem to think he carries the ball with soapy hands.
For the record, against Wire, Prescott made 79 metres from 12 carries, whilst Fielden made 80 metres from 12. Fielden made just 3 more tackles in the game. I can't understand why anyone would think Prescott should be dropped when he's performing at roughly the same level as Fielden who has imrpoved an awful lot so far this year and has received zero criticism.
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| I don't see why people are so defensive towards Prescott. It's just as postive wanting to give O'Carroll another crack at the whip after a long spell out and a decent run of performances within the reserves.
As explained in my post, it just seems to me that Prescott isn't as upto speed with the rest of the pack in regards to enthusiasm and speed and I don't feel as confident with him attacking as I do with the other front rowers as he has made a few errors in recent weeks. It's by no means suggesting he's played poorly, he hasn't but I think he has had a couple of games this season in which he is capable of much more and with him not playing to his full potential I think an opportunity should be given to a player of a similar age and background to if his attributes can improve the team.
It's competition for places, simple as that.
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| Quote: ABP' "I don't see why people are so defensive towards Prescott. It's just as postive wanting to give O'Carroll another crack at the whip after a long spell out and a decent run of performances within the reserves.
As explained in my post, it just seems to me that Prescott isn't as upto speed with the rest of the pack in regards to enthusiasm and speed and I don't feel as confident with him attacking as I do with the other front rowers as he has made a few errors in recent weeks. It's by no means suggesting he's played poorly, he hasn't but I think he has had a couple of games this season in which he is capable of much more and with him not playing to his full potential I think an opportunity should be given to a player of a similar age and background to if his attributes can improve the team.
It's compeition for places, simple as that.'"
I've got to agree.
Just because a few people feel it may be best to let a fresh player in O'Carroll have a crack doesn't mean they're bagging Prescott as a player overall.
He's had an off season operation and looks a little bit of the pace so far. A couple of games in the u20's would do him the power of good imo and then he can come back in and be the player we know he can be.
That was a blistering game on Saturday night played at break neck speed so to freshen the side up a little may not be a bad thing.
Maguire will make whatever calls he sees fit anyway and i'm more then ahppy with that.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "Maguire will make whatever calls he sees fit anyway and i'm more then ahppy with that.'"
Exactly and ditto!
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| Quote: ABP' "I don't see why people are so defensive towards Prescott. It's just as postive wanting to give O'Carroll another crack at the whip after a long spell out and a decent run of performances within the reserves.
As explained in my post, it just seems to me that Prescott isn't as upto speed with the rest of the pack in regards to enthusiasm and speed and I don't feel as confident with him attacking as I do with the other front rowers as he has made a few errors in recent weeks. It's by no means suggesting he's played poorly, he hasn't but I think he has had a couple of games this season in which he is capable of much more and with him not playing to his full potential I think an opportunity should be given to a player of a similar age and background to if his attributes can improve the team.
It's competition for places, simple as that.'"
Well explained it was too! However, the comparison should really be between Prescott and O'Carroll, not Prescott and the rest of the pack. Someone posted earlier about Prescott taking 3 out of 6 drives near our line towards the end of the game. I too noticed this and would back Prescott to make more headway than O'Carroll any day.
I really like O'Carroll and admire his effort and dedication but he is limited by his lack of height. Someone said he should use Webke as a role model but Webke was 6 foot and 17 stone+! Anyone who has met him knows O'Carroll is no more than 5'9''. More like Kylie Leuluai than Shane Webke IMO.
All the pundits say we will know a bit more about how the season will pan out after the first 6 games or so. IMO MM needs to give his choices this amount of time too. It's not as if we have made a bad start, is it?
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "Well explained it was too! However, the comparison should really be between Prescott and O'Carroll, not Prescott and the rest of the pack. Someone posted earlier about Prescott taking 3 out of 6 drives near our line towards the end of the game. I too noticed this and would back Prescott to make more headway than O'Carroll any day.
I really like O'Carroll and admire his effort and dedication but he is limited by his lack of height. Someone said he should use Webke as a role model but Webke was 6 foot and 17 stone+! Anyone who has met him knows O'Carroll is no more than 5'9''. More like Kylie Leuluai than Shane Webke IMO.
All the pundits say we will know a bit more about how the season will pan out after the first 6 games or so. IMO MM needs to give his choices this amount of time too. It's not as if we have made a bad start, is it?'"
It is a tough decision to make for MM and knowing when the time is right of when a player should be replaced/promoted.
To me, it just seems like playing ''safe'' doesn't cut it where as it would have done in the old regime. The standards feel as though they've gone higher and if a player isn't giving that extra effort or that extra bit of enthusiasm than his place should be up for grabs. I think putting players on their toes is the best way forward to get that extra effort out of them and after three games I think Prescott has had an opportunity to show MM what he's got. For me, he is capable of much more so it's time to give an opportunity to O'Carroll.
Maybe prescott should be given more time? Either way I think we all agree that it's a fine line and a debatable topic, it will be interesting to see MM decisions which will be heavily aided by SW I'm sure.
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| I'm happy with giving Prescott a rest by playing O'carroll on Friday. Not because Prescott has been playing poorly, I don't think he has, but we have a squad and need to be giving the fringe players some game time or else when we do need them to cover for injury, they will not be ready to step up if the reserves/under 20s competition is as weak as I think it's going to be.
While we are at it I would also consider rotating some of the back row forwards as well. They have been getting through an awful lot of work and I don't want them to burn out. Now that Bailey is back and looking OK it gives us more opportunity to do this. Harrison Hanson has been playing very well this season but has left the field looking very shaken in both the last two games after taking heavy knocks so why not consider giving him a break at some time as too.
Most of us have been grumbling about Noble's attitude to the chosen few. He wouldn't rotate (or drop) players when it was needed. What is wrong with rotating when things are going well if it's for the longer term benefit of the squad?
I'll answer my own question by saying we don't want to risk losing, but we boast about our improved squad this year. Let's use it. In this situation team changes shouldn't be looked on as one player being dropped and another promoted, we need to get away from that attitude and go forward as a first team squad rather than purely a first team???
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| The point you make re Wane could be valid, I admit. However, my biggest prop concern ATM is Feca. Why so little game time at HJ? Could it be MM isn't satisfied?
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| Quote: jinkin jimmy "The point you make re Wane could be valid, I admit. However, my biggest prop concern ATM is Feca. Why so little game time at HJ? Could it be MM isn't satisfied?'"
Even with his improved fitness the game on Saturday just looked too fast for him imo.
I get the feeling Maguire was nervous of using him in that 2nd half especially as we got oursleves back in the game. We never had field position on a consistant enough basis to bring him back on and won the game from our own half in a way with a couple of magical scores.
If we go back to the Hull KR game Feka made 31 tackles and around 10 marker tackles which for him was fantastic but when we were pinned on our own line in a 15minute spell before halftime Feka looked happy to take a back seat and let the wings/centres run the ball out. I'd have liked to have seen him put his hand up and take the responsibility of getting us out of our own half but in his spell of about 12-15 minutes he took in 1 drive.
I get the feeling Feka himself is concentrating too much on defence and possibly even getting involved in tackles he doesn't really need to just to show everyone he's not a defensive weak link anymore.
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| FWIW I hope no-one misinterprets this thread as a jibe at Paul Prescott or 'another player to pick on' type of thing. Merely an observation. I thought he was struggling against Warrington and could perhaps benefit with a week in the reserves. It sounds harsh, but he is still a very young prop forward who has a long way to go before he reaches his peak. James Graham and Sam Burgess are just freaks. I think Prescott could benefit and so could the team. Introducing a fresh prop forward who you can be assured will be looking to impress could be very beneficial to the team after such a short turnaround from a hard fought Wire game.
If people can point out statistics from the match that proves perhaps Prescott was not struggling then fine. But (although I started a thread on forwards statistics) stats are not the be all and end all. I openly accept that. Just Prescott's loose carries, long term, give me great concern. He is pretty well disciplined, but in terms of ball retention he is pretty poor and usually comes up with an error or two each game. I know people can point to other players like Deacon and Roberts, but these are our creative players. They come up with plays that sometimes don't come off. Solomona will probably make the most errors this season, but will be up there in terms of try assists. It's a common correlation between the most creative players and the number of errors made. But as a forward they just take the ball straight up the middle and make the 'hard yards'. The 'dirty work' and a loose carry on strong collision in the middle of the pack will lead to unnecessary and 'soft' errors, which good opponents will capitalise on.
Eamon O'carroll may not be the biggest, but he is stocky and is just as difficult to put down. He has never let us down IMO in a competitive Super League match. He was our best forward at the beginning of 2009 and was the only positive to take out of a dire performance in the opening match against Wakefield. He even earnt himself a first team spot and Andy Coley was forced to face a week in the reserves. I'm not sure why people are putting the mockers on the lad. He can certainly do a job for us this week against Les Catalans. It's at least brought up an interesting debate if nothing else.
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| my only concern with ocarrol is that he does not seem to cause the defence many problems. He hits the line hard there is no mistaking that. He very rarely breaks the line and does not make yards in th tackle. Coley can do ten yards with blokes hanging off him at times. This ocarroll never seems to do. I just dont think he is going to make it at wigan. sorry just my opinion hope i am wrong
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| End of the day we need competition for places, if Riddell was playing average and McIllorum was waiting in the wings I would drop Riddell for McIllorum so that Riddell wouldn't get complacent in the side.
You need to set the benchmark for standards and if any player doesn't play to their best standard then drop them for someone who will.
Players like O'Loughlin, Richards, Gleeson can have off games and not be dropped because everyone knows their class and try hard but like last week I said drop Prescott for O'Carroll just to show we can't take passengers even though Prescott didn't play poorly he didn't exactly rip it up, needs to run in faster IMO to cause any damage, I also think he is a good work horse prop just would like to see a bit more aggression and speed to his game, if he did he would be fantastic.
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