If you don't recall the early SL, pre-cap teams - how can you expect anyone to pay attention to your assertions of falling standards in SDL?

Why not compare it to the pre CC 2000 World Cup shambles of a team? Was that the CC's fault too?

Fact is our problems relate to junior development and predate the CC introduction by a long stretch.

Thankfully, the juniors coming through now in the communist capped SDL look far better than we have had in the recent past.

It is obvious from your championing of Vila that you don't remember him and I imagine you have no stats for his missed tackles, errors, penalties, red cards and suspensions.

Another who has no idea. Check the line ups in 1996.

some of what u have said I would agree with but the highlighted part is bollox. What your saying basically is that the smaller teams stay small so the big teams i.e wigan leeds hull can just use them to give your youngsters a run out What some of competition are you looking for then one like the scottish prem where only 2 teams can win !!!

CBA but I know that Tommy played in the 96 CC Final & He missed all of the previous season through injury & when fit he was the 1st choice 6 at Saints!

You don't know that at all.

Challenge Cup Final - Hammond stand off, Martyn on the bench.

Hammond played 29 out of 30 games in 1996.

You have no clue.

Did Tommy play in the 96 cup final????
Did Tommy miss the WHOLE of 95/96 Season (Trunkated Season or whatever it was called) through injury?

Was Tomyy, When Fit, 1st choice 6 at Saints???

And TBH wether Hammond played there or didn't play there for 1 season you don't seem to have answered How 11 of the team that you say would get mullered by Today's team (Even though you keep posting the 2006 team and comapring it to that) would still get in today's 17 without Weakening it and in most instances Improve it!

Yes, from the bench behind Hammond as per my team.



And?



Not in 1996, Hammond was.



Name them, and compare them to our current best in the same position.

So, let's get this right. Hammond was playing well enough in 1996 to keep Martyn - who many Saints fans rate as one of your all time greats and was then in his mid 20s - on the bench, and that's evidence of a decline in the standard of your team?

Oh dear.

You're just digging an ever deeper hole for yourself, I'm afraid.

I have already highlighted them previously.

Have a look yourself and tell me if ANY of those 11, if selected today, would weaken St Helens??????

You have no clue.'"

The opinions of a coach and fans often differ. Hanley wanted Tricky Trindall over Martyn, it proves nothing.

You just stick to convincing people that Vila, Pickavance and Anderson would be playing SL now, desppite not remembering them

I don't recall the fringe players (particularly some of the forwards) all that well, no. I admit that I'm not in a great position to judge whether a particular Saints fringe player of 1996 was better than fringe players now. But that's what most of us who argue against the CC do, we behave rationally and admit that we don't actually know everything.

Its better to do that than make claims that turn out to have no credibility, like the assertion that the players listed in the earlier post were NL1 standard or "rubbish". That can't be taken seriously and undermines your credibility on other issues.

I do recall players like Newlove and Gibbs for example, both were better than any current GB centres (though neither was as good as Gary Connolly, which underlines the talent deficit in the SDL of today) and together were better than any centre pairing in today's Soopah Doopah League.

Your 3/4 line, in fact your back line as a whole in 96 - which I do remember because it was a star-studded backline - was very much stronger than it is now and stronger IMO than the 2006 backline.