[quote="SFW":1d04pbbn]I don't think it's a bad thing, especially considering some of the recent performances from those that are OOC. Should drive some better performances out of those that are playing to secure their future and put us in a position of strength in the market if we are/have been proactive enough to get things done. There are a lot of highly-regarded young players waiting in the wings for an opportunity too, in particular the second year professionals who all impressed with their brief game time last year. Could be quite a bit of transition but that's not to say we shouldn't be competitive if the squad we do have stays fit. Whether the coaching is up to managing all this is another matter entirely however.[/quote:1d04pbbn] Getting underperforming/over the hill players out is great but replacing them is another matter and is even harder if Knowles or Lees (or both left). Every time I think of Wigan signing a player and then look at an OOC list from Superleague, It's startling the lack of British talent that could be available. The best players are already tied up at other clubs. Saints could have plenty of quota spots but that market is far tougher than it's been in the past as well. In short, it's probably the most difficult time I can remember to be going through a major rebuild and I'd imagine the agents of Knowles/Lees probably know that and will be pushing for every last pound they can get for them.

Looking increasingly like Knowles is off to the Dolphins. I don't begrudge him that at all. He's given great service, been here 11 years, won everything there is to win and has the chance to earn some serious wedge and team up with a decent coach again. Lees I believe is definitely being chased by Warrington but Saints are offering him a lucrative deal to keep him.

[quote="Stu M":21ppbj1i]Looking increasingly like Knowles is off to the Dolphins. I don't begrudge him that at all. He's given great service, been here 11 years, won everything there is to win and has the chance to earn some serious wedge and team up with a decent coach again. Lees I believe is definitely being chased by Warrington but Saints are offering him a lucrative deal to keep him.[/quote:21ppbj1i] They would be mad not to. If he goes where does a replacement come from? They will need to offer him marquee money.

[quote="NickyKiss":3rrp09jz]Getting underperforming/over the hill players out is great but replacing them is another matter and is even harder if Knowles or Lees (or both left). Every time I think of Wigan signing a player and then look at an OOC list from Superleague, It's startling the lack of British talent that could be available. The best players are already tied up at other clubs. Saints could have plenty of quota spots but that market is far tougher than it's been in the past as well. In short, it's probably the most difficult time I can remember to be going through a major rebuild and I'd imagine the agents of Knowles/Lees probably know that and will be pushing for every last pound they can get for them.[/quote:3rrp09jz] Agree, unless something out of the ordinary happens you can't go to market to replace the better non-quota players. Knowles deserves to do what he wants like Makinson did but this would be a much bigger blow as he has (arguably) yet to reach his prime. Same with Lees, although I reserve judgement and would give either hell if they left for another SL club. Given the general malaise around the club the last 12-18 months it wouldn't surprise me if they have been caught slipping with this new rule around contract negotiations with other clubs and have been beaten to the punch. You have to wonder what king of long term planning is currently in place when a coach is out of contract at the same time as more than half his players.

The signing of the two Saints kids for '26 is an interesting one. Money may well have been a factor but as neither of them have made that first team breakthrough yet, maybe they just don't see a future at Saints under Wellens, worrying times if so as one of them, Vaughn, is apparently a dyed in the wool lifelong Saints fan.

Maybe jumping before the ship sinks

Dont know much about the 2 players tbh but, if it turns out to be true, it will have been worth it for the reaction if nothing else

You guys had a look at Redvee

Aren't they both out of contract at the end of the season? I don't see why the furore online, surely if Saints had plans for either then they would have deals secured before now.

[quote="karetaker":1n7c0ilu]You guys had a look at Redvee [/quote:1n7c0ilu] Always good for a giggle

[quote="MattyB":3mghnid8]Aren't they both out of contract at the end of the season? I don't see why the furore online, surely if Saints had plans for either then they would have deals secured before now.[/quote:3mghnid8] I wrote this last week and sadly it seems to have come to pass: [quote="SFW":3mghnid8]Given the general malaise around the club the last 12-18 months it wouldn't surprise me if they have been caught slipping with this new rule around contract negotiations with other clubs and have been beaten to the punch. You have to wonder what king of long term planning is currently in place when a coach is out of contract at the same time as more than half his players.[/quote:3mghnid8] There's no way we should have let this happen,

[quote="SFW":16erdw5y]I wrote this last week and sadly it seems to have come to pass: There's no way we should have let this happen,[/quote:16erdw5y] The numbers you quoted as out of contract was ridiculous for any club, let alone one as big as Saints i know you wouldnt want to keep them all as you stated and would be happy to see some go, but i seem to think it was 4 or 5, you would def keep, a similar number to let go, and the rest i'm assuming you would have been happy to stay. In the SC world, a team cant have world beaters in every position and as with Wigan you need a Willie Isa, Abbas Miski type player, who does a good job but you know they are team players, and unlikely to be on massive money It seems like Saints, especially in regards to the new rule for out of contract players have taken their eye off the ball

[quote="karetaker":1rcjgi0e]You guys had a look at Redvee [/quote:1rcjgi0e] Regularly mate, it's the funniest show in town.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/st ... it-in-2026 Morgan Knowles gone?

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/st ... it-in-2026 Morgan Knowles gone?

[quote="MattyB":2t6n6cs1]https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/st-helens-concede-defeat-with-star-off-contract-forward-set-for-exit-in-2026 Morgan Knowles gone?[/quote:2t6n6cs1] Seemed quite a lot of ifs buts and maybes in that article

Interesting to see Saints announce the signing of Dagnall with the title "looking to repay the faith". One could easily read that as a subtle dig...

[quote="TKOR":2p8ftlfu]Interesting to see Saints announce the signing of Dagnall with the title "looking to repay the faith". One could easily read that as a subtle dig...[/quote:2p8ftlfu] Rumour has it they put the offer in via text. Owen m8, how aboot a nu 4 yr deal? u k w\ dat?

[quote="TKOR":j6ltxyby]Interesting to see Saints announce the signing of Dagnall with the title "looking to repay the faith". One could easily read that as a subtle dig...[/quote:j6ltxyby] We like subtle digs at Wigan, they fire us up.

[quote="apollosghost":17860fsa]Seemed quite a lot of ifs buts and maybes in that article[/quote:17860fsa] There is an article in an Australian paper, I think it was the Chronicle, which superseded that article.

[quote="NickyKiss":145rxfty]Rumour has it they put the offer in via text. Owen m8, how aboot a nu 4 yr deal? u k w\ dat?[/quote:145rxfty] That's a lie nobody in St Helens can write.

[quote="Zig":5b6ara2o]That's a lie nobody in St Helens can write.[/quote:5b6ara2o] You would think it would be easier and faster to txt what with their extra fingers.

Nice touch by Rush with his letter to Willie Isa that Isa shared on social media. There's been a few nice touches both ways in recent years which for me does make RL unique as Isa says in his post. We do a lot of things wrong with our sport but we also do a lot of things right.

[quote="Stu M":2j3mfmhy]Nice touch by Rush with his letter to Willie Isa that Isa shared on social media. There's been a few nice touches both ways in recent years which for me does make RL unique as Isa says in his post. We do a lot of things wrong with our sport but we also do a lot of things right.[/quote:2j3mfmhy] It was a nice touch and is how things should be done.

[quote="Mark_P1973":24ioev2g]The numbers you quoted as out of contract was ridiculous for any club, let alone one as big as Saints i know you wouldnt want to keep them all as you stated and would be happy to see some go, but i seem to think it was 4 or 5, you would def keep, a similar number to let go, and the rest i'm assuming you would have been happy to stay. In the SC world, a team cant have world beaters in every position and as with Wigan you need a Willie Isa, Abbas Miski type player, who does a good job but you know they are team players, and unlikely to be on massive money It seems like Saints, especially in regards to the new rule for out of contract players have taken their eye off the ball[/quote:24ioev2g] Plenty of talk around the unprofessional way we have gone about some if not all of these 'negotiations'. It's no secret the amount of work Wigan do around this in comparison and whilst they aren't reinventing the wheel it obviously has an impact, particularly on impressionable young players and their families. Hopefully some lessons learned. There are some whispers around Sambou maybe having second thoughts but the fact they haven't been chosen in the squad for West Hull is telling. I've seen and heard some hilarious flipping of opinions on Vaughan from both sides since Monday, I think he's going to have a good eventually. May lack size currently but can easily see him being a useful, grafting back rower in the Isa mould as you mention above. His attitude and fitness are first class.

[quote="SFW":224anyc4]Plenty of talk around the unprofessional way we have gone about some if not all of these 'negotiations'. It's no secret the amount of work Wigan do around this in comparison and whilst they aren't reinventing the wheel it obviously has an impact, particularly on impressionable young players and their families. Hopefully some lessons learned. There are some whispers around Sambou maybe having second thoughts but the fact they haven't been chosen in the squad for West Hull is telling. I've seen and heard some hilarious flipping of opinions on Vaughan from both sides since Monday, I think he's going to have a good eventually. May lack size currently but can easily see him being a useful, grafting back rower in the Isa mould as you mention above. His attitude and fitness are first class.[/quote:224anyc4] One of my work colleagues used to go to school with a former player (now retired) who used to play for Saints, and then signed for Wigan. At that point in time, he was expected to sign / return to Saints because he'd played for Saints and that was the approach that Saints used, and basically put no effort into it. Wigan took him to the club, showed him round, made him feel wanted etc, and he signed for us. I know that is only a specific example, and there's no doubt Wigan wont get it right or do it right with every player, but many when they sign say how Wigan approached the signature and how they are made to feel wanted. on the flip side, i've read one of our youngsters say that Leigh made him feel wanted, but then also thanked Wigan for their assistance in making it happen re the 2 youngster that have been discussed this week one of my former work colleagues is a die hard Saint, and he was giving Wigan and the young lads loads on Facebook until i explained that neither party had done anything wrong if they do sign for Wigan. He didnt know about the rule change and thought Wigan were being underhand and speaking to contracted players. To be honest i'm not sure i like the new rule, but it has certainly given us all some talking points late in the off season