It will also be interesting to see if he goes Murphy to start off with or if he feels Bennison is worth the no5 shirt

I know there's been different threads on here and Warriors fans about the pack ,but our decision last year to really stack the props seems to have paid dividends as we are settled again for this year, and have depth there too

We're well set across the board for the next 5+ years really and can be really specific with the recruitment now and in which positions they try to fill from the academy. Looking over the hill at Saints, the transition period has started to a degree but there is still going to be an awful lot of change needed in the coming seasons and that is part of the reason I'm surprised Hurrell wasn't replaced now. Within the next 2 to 4 years, they're likely going to need to replace Hurrell, Feldt, Lomax, Walmsley and Paasi. I can't see Percival playing past that period either and Clark and Sironen will be right at the end of their careers. You'd also imagine in that time Welsby may decide to chance his arm in the NRL as well, so lots of good work is going to be needed and it's getting harder and harder to recruit top quality players. They'll bring good players through, as they always do but it won't be easy.

there is a very different feel about Wigan now, to say the previous 10 years

i know there will always be 1 or 2 lads who want to chance their arm in the NRL, and no-one can blame them really given the lifestyle and likely salary increase. However, we seem to have gone from virtually anyone wants to / or can go, even with a long term contract, to players seemingly wanting to play for Wigan. IMO KPP went about his move to the NRL in the right way. He informed the club of his intention, but more importantly played his heart out for Wigan in that last season, and gave his all, as a fan, thats all i want to see when they have the Cherry and White on.

in terms of the feel, its gone from feeling like a major surgery / makeover each off season, to minor surgery / cosmetic . As you said, at the minute we have long term contracts to key players, we know when others are off contract and with smart retention / not renewing for the sake of it, we could see this side together for a good few years, with minor tweaks to it

i suppose the change to when off contract players can talk to other clubs will potentially have an impact, not just on Wigan's recruitment but across the game. Theoretically, from 1st Dec, we could find out that Byrne, Isa and Farrell, are all moving on for the 2026 season as they have signed for other clubs, so that could take some of the decisions out of the clubs hands earlier if the player feels they are going to be offered a better contract elsewhere. i'm not sure yet, whether i like that change or not, but i suppose from a player perspective, the sooner they can sort out their next contract the better for them, so a positive from a players perspective?

The Saints squad is made up of two parts. Aging players several whom seemed past their best, and some young players looking to make the grade. I think there are around a dozen who are over 30

Thought I would resurrect this thread but for a Wigan question. What are your predictions for next year? Obviously you are the team to beat and if I was a Wigan fan I would be feeling really confident but what are your expectations?

Will the Vegas trip have an effect later in the year? If you go far in the CC will that have an effect on the Grand Final? Naturally injuries are a huge factor and if you lost the likes of Smith and French at the same time, it would be an issue all be it Farrimond would come in who is a generational talent.

I think you'll win the GF again but not the CC is my opinion.

A repeat of this year where we win everything in sight is 99% not gonna happen. We'll be in the mix for it all of course, but if I had to guess I'd say we'll probably win one of CC or GF and finish 1st or 2nd in SL.

I expect Hull KR to finally get their hands on a trophy in 2025. Wouldn't surprise me if they got LLS plus a CC or GF

For Vegas, Wire are a good team but I think we'll be well up for that and treat it like a GF. If we've got a full team I reckon we'll win by 12+

Vegas will be less of an issue than the WCC so I don't see it as an issue, travelling apart. I think we have found our groove and based on last season the team (players, coaches, backroom staff) are able to raise their game when it matters. Obviously, every team will want to shoot Wigan down and rightly so, therefore it will be much harder than last season to win trophies. Having said that, I look at the other teams in the competition and I don't see much strengthening. I would be surprised if we didn't win the LLS, which increases our chances of winning the GF. As for the CC, much depends on the draw. Based on last season, the squad is good enough to cover injuries and suspensions, our young guys have a lot more experience under their belt and I expect them to be pushing for starting berths.

How do you rate Saints chances Stu?

Lots of moving parts to consider. I have a good feeling about Sailor, he has come over here with a great attitude, seems settled already and wants to prove a point. I think he will give us a bit of X factor that only really Welsby has given us before.

Feldt will go well, strong carries, sound defensively and will finish tries. If Murphy can stay fit then he will be a good signing too. I also think the new assistants have definitely provided some freshness and from interviews I've seen with some of the players, they do seem enthused with the coaching changes and intensity. Briers has a big job on with the attack but if he can get Welsby and Sailor linking well with Murphy and Feldt as finishers, we will go ok.

Those are the positives.

The negatives are that we are still short at centre- two really. Percival is quality on his day but injury prone now. Hurrell is a liability defensively and now a year older and coming off the back of a big injury. I can't believe he has been given another year.

We are still short of a quality 7 as Lomax is nowhere near the player he was. We are still short of props too and are hoping that Walmsley can stay fit and provide a couple of 15 min spells and that Paasi comes back better and fitter than last season. If we can get limited minutes out of those two then with Lees, Stephens and Delaney we will go ok. It's a big if though and I can see Walmsley still suffering with injuries.

Batchelor was woeful last season and needs a big year, so too Whitley. We do still have quality in the likes of Clark and Knowles but we are relying on a relatively low number of injuries. Last season killed us in that we had half the year with lots of forwards missing and the second half of the season, the forwards came back and the backs were injured.

I'm predicting a top 4 finish but no pots. Maybe a CC if the draw goes well and Wigan go out.

The fact is we have a Head Coach overseeing everything who is not good enough.

Saints pack got pretty much dog walked by everyone bar London and Hull. The pack is also weaker the coming season. They will scrape 5th or 6th.

I can really see Wigan doing the treble again. They are so far ahead of everyone else it’s embarassing

Thanks Stu, on the whole I agree with your synopsis. What’s your take on having 18 players out of contract at the end of next season? There appears to have been some inept planning. The biggest concern should be Knowles and Lees being able to speak to rival clubs.

Stu's assessment of Saints is pretty much my own view although I will add that I've seen some Saints fans saying "if we have better luck with injuries" and similar and I genuinely don't think that's a possibility. Although there's always an element of luck there's a law of diminishing returns when you (re)sign injury prone players. Saints have too many of those. I see similar to last year, or maybe a touch better, on the injury front but not enough to make a significant difference.

For Wigan I think we'll go well again but unlikely to match last year's heroics simply because we'll be competing on all fronts again. We did well to get our spine (O'Neil excepted) back in harness when it mattered and I don't think that's something that you can count on most years. Vegas will have an effect too. I'll go for another trophy and there or thereabouts in the others. That said, I wouldn't put it past this lot to raise their game again.

Like most Wigan fans I'm looking forward to the season again and that in itself is something to be happy about.

i think the good thing about Wigan, despite the success last year, is that we will still have some young hungry players who perhaps werent part of that (yes they were squad members, but maybe didnt play as much as they wanted). So the likes of Hill, Walters, Farrimond and O'Neill (through injury) should all be keen to show what they can do and win medals, and i think that'll keep pushing us through

as most say, i cant see another clean sweep, but we'll be there or there abouts when it matters

Agree about the injuries. The relentless, physical way of playing for 3 years under Woolf is starting to show with some players. They are older and wear and tear is showing. If anything they are likely to pick up more injuries not less.

We need to start providing some energy with youth and it will be really interesting to see how Briers works with the likes of Robertson and Whitby. I'm hoping Stephens gets more game time as he was bending the line when he did play last season and has an offload on him. He needs more minutes and for his fitness too.

As for the number of players out of contract at the same time, it's exceptionally poor planning and a lack of vision. I can't understand how that's happened when for years we've been really smart with our retention and more often than not our better players have stayed.

That said there is a large number of that 18 who will leave the club and not many who I would want to keep. Knowles and Lees are the crown jewels in the pack and I'm hoping we keep both. I do have a feeling though that Lees will go to the NRL and I don't blame him. Knowles should be the next captain and money thrown at him. We are a different team with and without him. Now that he is finally over the groin injury he has been carrying for over a year, you can see how important he is.

They have recruited really smartly and have been great with succession planning. There's no doubt they are set for a successful period.

I just hope elements of the fanbase don't get too entitled/silly and expect us to win the lot again and then bag the players and coaching staff when it doesn't happen. Only the Challenge Cup was reasonably comfortable to win last year for us and everything else needed some big moments going our way to get them done.

We look extremely strong again and the squad is that young it's still developing in many areas but nothing is a given and other sides are strengthening. They will obviously aim to win everything on offer again and I'm confident of some more success but we'll see how we go. The challenges of backing up an unbelievable 2024 and Vegas will make things tricky. If we win another challenge cup or Grand Final, that would be another superb season.

Stephens looks the real deal for sure but I haven't seen someone to build your pack around as yet. His fitness is lacking at the moment and there are props who have that throughout their career. Will he get there with his fitness or is he more of a Mago impact type? Robertson is also an exceptional talent but the caveat there is too much is being expected of him from the fan base. He needs time and having seen some of the comments from your fans I can only hope he gets it. Together with Farrimond they could form an international pairing down the line if given the right development.

The new coaches will add something if the tools they have to work with are available. I'm not convinced they will have though as I've said previously. We'll see.

Lees and Knowles are interesting. I agree that Lees may take the opportunity to try his hand down under. Which leaves Knowles who could present a challenge. He's undoubtedly important to Saints but in the way Ellis has become for us. He's important but he isn't a French or a Smith if you see what I mean. On the one hand you need to keep him but on the other I suspect it will take marquee money to do so. Which means one less spot for a world class half or x factor game breaker (or preferably both as we have in French). Even though you have to go all out to retain him, particularly with all those players off contract, it could, ironically, prove to be a millstone when it comes to rebuilding the squad.

It does look like they've made some good decisions this last 18 months or so, with some good long term contracts handed out providing an element of stability, and succession planning

your comment to one of the other posters is quite telling too re Saints current position re contracts and recent retentions etc. i've said a few times Wigan (going back to 90's / 00s) used to get it right virtually all the time letting the likes of Hanley, Offiah, Gregory etc go at the right time, and having replacements coming through or signed and ready to take that 1st team shirt

Saints up until the last couple of years have had that knack too, and it was a frustration of some of our fans when we were seemingly keeping players on too long, but it seems that the clubs have flipped positions and we are now getting it right, whilst saints are making some strange decisions re letting players go on for a season or 2 too long

Finishing top 3 years on the trot would be a superb achievement especially with everyone gunning for us

Again, hard to disagree with anything you have said there. I'm hoping Stephens gains some fitness as he is full time now and has been for over a year so there are no excuses in that he is still studying etc. His Mum posts on RedVee and says he has been very dilligent pre-season in relation to training, diet etc so we will see.

I think signing Sailor will mean that Robertson's game time will be limited which is the best thing for him at this stage. He can get minutes across the backline in different positions. Last season, he played way more than envisaged and naturally as a young player he made mistakes. Obviously an injury to Welsby or Sailor changes that but if both stay fit then he won't play 1 or 6 much in my opinion.

I also understand exactly what you mean about Knowles. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens with his contract.

More than anything, that would probably be the biggest achievement, simply because it's the hardest to win, especially from a POV of motivation. You gave to consistently get yourself up for going winning to Cas, Wakey, Salford, Hull etc and winning games and we're not always great at that. I'd take either of the other two over it but it probably would be the most impressive achievement in 2025 if we won the LLS.

The thing that struck me about Robertson was how positively he reacted when he did make mistakes. It never seemed to drive him into his shell, and I get the impression his mental attitude is great, so i have high hopes for him as a future international. But I agree, a sensible amount of game time for his development will be crucial.

Regarding Knowles, I think the difference in the team's performance when he was available and when he was out was really noticeable, so I can see why Wellens would do everything he can to keep him. Lees may be harder to keep and would be a loss, as I rate him very highly as well, but I think he is more replaceable. He's a real coaches' player. I can recall lots of fans questioning how much he really brings, but you can see that Wellens and Wane both really rate him. He's just really consistent and has a fantastic engine.

This will be a huge season for Wellens, but I still think he can make a success of things. I'm not sure what represents a minimum acceptable season for Saints this year? Do they have to win a trophy, or would making a final playing better rugby and showing progress be enough? Not sure. I don't personally see them as challenging for the absolute top this coming year, but equally, I don't see them doing a Leeds and dropping out of the play-offs altogether. As with almost everyone, a lot will depend on fitness and form of key players and new signings.

The coaching situation needs sorting. Briers has a year longer on his contract than Wellens. Is that so if Wellens starts badly next season, Briers steps in? Who knows.

The big issue though is the Recruitment for 2026. There could be a lot of players leaving in 2025 and a lot of cap space available. Hurrell, Paasi, Mbye, Sironen maybe Bell. Then there's the likes of Davies, Ritson, Bennison. That's not even the worst case scenario of Lees or Knowles leaving. Or both.

However the coach for 2026 will want input and if its not Wellens then they will need to know who it is early in 2025. If it is Wellens again then they are putting faith in him but again it may only be another 1 year deal depending how we go this season. If they offer him 2 or 3 years and we flop spectacularly then we are in dire straits.

The decision as to who the coach is for 2026 needs to be a good one.

I think Saints will finish in the top 4 but there are clearly a lot of question marks going forward. A big one is the future of Paul Wellens but ultimately the stars of the squad have aged and it will take time to replace them. Roby, LMS and Makinson have all gone whilst Lomax, Walmsley, Paasi and Hurrell are approaching the end. Clark, Sironen, Percival, Batchelor and Bell all in their 30s. If Lees and/or Knowles go as well it would be a nightmare. There are some promising players coming through but likely 2-3 years away from potentially being able to lead a title winning squad.

Other concerns are the lack of a specialist kicker and how injury prone the squad has been over the last couple of years.

Tristan Sailor has to be a success for them and I actually hope that he is one - Super League needs more stars and he definitely seems to have some X factor.

On a side note it's interesting to see how all of the big stars are back training at the majority of SL clubs but it looks like ours will only be back after Christmas. Completely understandable given the number of games we played but I think it also shows a level of trust in the squad to keep themselves fit outside of the club. Giving the likes of French and Field some extra time back home has definitely been a smart strategy.

Thinking of recruiting players is pretty scary stuff at the minute and gets scarier by the year. The quality just isn't coming over from the NRL anymore and as it gets bigger, the more we're going to be left with the likes of Waqa Blake. You'll get the odd diamond, who is on the edge of the NRL coming in but it seems to becoming the case now where imports with any sort of profile are older than we've ever seen (JWH and Rapana) , are unknown or there isn't much about them. I look at Saints signing Sironen 3 years ago and that signing won't happen anymore IMO. He'd played 130 NRL games, County Origin etc and there will be enough teams in the comp to offer that profile of player a good deal. You look to lesser profile players like Ellis and Field, who were fringe NRL players and even they will be tough to get and if you do, it may just be for a year or so (if they do well) before they head back.

Saints and Wigan with their academies will be in the best place to ride that but you wouldn't want to be having to do too much recruitment each year.

Saints need to retain Knowles and Lees because finding federation trained players will no be easy however, they will need to pay them handsomely and that will restrict what can be spent elsewhere.