So in all of those years of 'failure' we still won plenty of trophies. Now he is getting it right 'in your words Steph' we look pretty formidable. We have a succession plan for players in all positions and only the best make it through. We have the best young coach in the game and the wealthiest owner who is investing in improving the already top notch facilities (which is something any owner could do if they wanted to) We already have by far the best side in the league and it's young. Any team that could topple us would be well deserved. It won't be Saints, not for a while yet, It won't be Hull KR and it wont be Catalans. Warrington look the main dangers but Leeds are recruiting well and could be back next season.

Wild Saturday nights in again for Robert.

Do we?

i'd be surprised if we dont, but with a sports team it may be a little more fluid than what i am used to in business, and it is likely to start at the top with a plan for Matty Peet

so for Matty, it could be SoL, Tommy or bring in external. Obviously with Matty tied down to long term contract, the club arent envisaging having to act on this anytime soon, but they will be conscious that things change, and one of the current coaches needs to be in a position to take on the 1st team or we go external

Players are where its likely to be a little more fluid as injuries / loss of form. So for example Harry Smith could be our no 7 for the next 10 years, but we will be monitoring all the young lads coming through from scholarship into academy. The coaches can take a view on the ones most likely to make it, and even though we may bring in 20-30 young lads each year, we know that only 2-3 are likely to make it. If there is an outstanding talent that comes through, then it is likely that they would put pressure on Harry. Harry could get injured, short term, medium term loss of form, change of playing style doesnt suit, therefore we need to have someone ready to pick up that no7 jersey. Equally, we may know that we dont have any potential suitors to that no7 shirt, so we go for Nathan Cleary (only joking), so we would need to look externally for our replacement

the club(s) as i include all professional clubs in this, wont just be thinking player x is our player for the next 10-15 years, and therefore i am pretty sure all will have short, medium and long term succession plans in place for coaching through playing staff

I get your points and information, but the post I originally quoted implied we have a succession plan for every position (which may be true) but framed as if we didn't historically.

So my question is around how does he know we have a succession plan for every player and why that is different to anything we have had historically.

To highlight my point - What is the succession plan for Jai Field? And if the answer is X youngster in our academy or first team, how is that different to what we have always had?

If we don’t we have got very lucky of late!

Most clubs have a depth chart covering first team down to scholarship which would take up a major part of planning and recruitment/retentions and scouting.

In the James Graham podcast Penrith CEO was on and he said he knew what his starting 17 would be for the next 4 seasons more or less.

to be fair i'd be surprised if we havent had this for years(but i have no inside knowledge just my opinion based on work experience), we may just be doing it more professionally than previously. Its something i've been involved with for years at work, so would be shocked if professional sports teams dont have similar. However, i would caveat, that as we have seen at Wigan in the past, Leeds and Saints recently, that clubs arent always getting it correct as there would be a greater consistency in on field performance if that were the case. Sometimes there are emotions that get in the way where players are concerned that i dont think you would typically see in a day to day workplace

re Jai Field, the short term (injury) plan could be Bevan French or Zak Eckersley. Medium term say 12-24 months, they will have a view that Bevan / Zak could cover injury and also they have a view of what we have reserves, academy and scholarship. is there a player within the current structure able to take over at full back (not saying he will be as good as Jai at this point), so the club need to look and think Jai, Bevan / Zak, AN Other or recruit if salary cap available

coming towards the end of Jai's contract, do we offer him a new contract or let him go? Do we have a replacement for him (yes / no), do we need to recruit (yes / no) with both questions the club would also be querying what the impact is of Jai no longer being here i.e. he's rapid, and can do things other players cant, so what benefits does the player promoted / recruited have v what we are losing? Can the player be adapted or does playing style need to be adapted? Do we have a player in another position with strengths that we currently dont have

from what i've seen of Matty Peet he is a very shrewd man manager, and is most likely using tools from business / other sports to get the best out of himself and his players

Wigan will have succession planning in place by the fact they have an academy, scholarships and talent scouts in place, the unknown in all of it is the players themselves.

Bevan may decide to go back at the end of his contract so Wigan will in theory have someone in mind to take over, however Bevan may decide he wants to stay and if he is the best half back in the comp at the time, then I suspect Wigan would renew his contract unless of course they couldn't afford it, that then leaves the player coming through to replace him with a decision to make when his contract is due, does he bide his time or move on for regular games, all of these decisions are in the hands of the players, the club just has to have contingencies in place based on the variables, which I suspect the club and all clubs who have academies etc. will do

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... s-30404661 Saints squad numbers released a couple of days back On paper 1-17 looks decent, although i think Hurrell and Bennison could be gotten at. much will depend on injuries as outside of the 17, there is only really 2 players with lots of 1st team experience or you would consider 1st team players. The pack is more than capable of mixing it with the best, and with Bell, Whitley & Paasi have some good strength off the bench, but as just commented it will depend on injuries how they go this season

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... s-30404661 Saints squad numbers released a couple of days back On paper 1-17 looks decent, although i think Hurrell and Bennison could be gotten at. much will depend on injuries as outside of the 17, there is only really 2 players with lots of 1st team experience or you would consider 1st team players. The pack is more than capable of mixing it with the best, and with Bell, Whitley & Paasi have some good strength off the bench, but as just commented it will depend on injuries how they go this season

I'm really surprised that Hurrell has been given a new deal. They look to have sorted out the wing issues but Matautia will be a huge loss, the centres will struggle to get through a full season and a fair chunk of luck will be needed with Walmsley and Paasi to then allow the pack to try and dominate. They'll be up near the top of the table again but it feels like their recruitment/retention needs to be a bit more ruthless.

It will also be interesting to see if he goes Murphy to start off with or if he feels Bennison is worth the no5 shirt

I know there's been different threads on here and Warriors fans about the pack ,but our decision last year to really stack the props seems to have paid dividends as we are settled again for this year, and have depth there too

We're well set across the board for the next 5+ years really and can be really specific with the recruitment now and in which positions they try to fill from the academy. Looking over the hill at Saints, the transition period has started to a degree but there is still going to be an awful lot of change needed in the coming seasons and that is part of the reason I'm surprised Hurrell wasn't replaced now. Within the next 2 to 4 years, they're likely going to need to replace Hurrell, Feldt, Lomax, Walmsley and Paasi. I can't see Percival playing past that period either and Clark and Sironen will be right at the end of their careers. You'd also imagine in that time Welsby may decide to chance his arm in the NRL as well, so lots of good work is going to be needed and it's getting harder and harder to recruit top quality players. They'll bring good players through, as they always do but it won't be easy.

there is a very different feel about Wigan now, to say the previous 10 years

i know there will always be 1 or 2 lads who want to chance their arm in the NRL, and no-one can blame them really given the lifestyle and likely salary increase. However, we seem to have gone from virtually anyone wants to / or can go, even with a long term contract, to players seemingly wanting to play for Wigan. IMO KPP went about his move to the NRL in the right way. He informed the club of his intention, but more importantly played his heart out for Wigan in that last season, and gave his all, as a fan, thats all i want to see when they have the Cherry and White on.

in terms of the feel, its gone from feeling like a major surgery / makeover each off season, to minor surgery / cosmetic . As you said, at the minute we have long term contracts to key players, we know when others are off contract and with smart retention / not renewing for the sake of it, we could see this side together for a good few years, with minor tweaks to it

i suppose the change to when off contract players can talk to other clubs will potentially have an impact, not just on Wigan's recruitment but across the game. Theoretically, from 1st Dec, we could find out that Byrne, Isa and Farrell, are all moving on for the 2026 season as they have signed for other clubs, so that could take some of the decisions out of the clubs hands earlier if the player feels they are going to be offered a better contract elsewhere. i'm not sure yet, whether i like that change or not, but i suppose from a player perspective, the sooner they can sort out their next contract the better for them, so a positive from a players perspective?

The Saints squad is made up of two parts. Aging players several whom seemed past their best, and some young players looking to make the grade. I think there are around a dozen who are over 30

Thought I would resurrect this thread but for a Wigan question. What are your predictions for next year? Obviously you are the team to beat and if I was a Wigan fan I would be feeling really confident but what are your expectations?

Will the Vegas trip have an effect later in the year? If you go far in the CC will that have an effect on the Grand Final? Naturally injuries are a huge factor and if you lost the likes of Smith and French at the same time, it would be an issue all be it Farrimond would come in who is a generational talent.

I think you'll win the GF again but not the CC is my opinion.

A repeat of this year where we win everything in sight is 99% not gonna happen. We'll be in the mix for it all of course, but if I had to guess I'd say we'll probably win one of CC or GF and finish 1st or 2nd in SL.

I expect Hull KR to finally get their hands on a trophy in 2025. Wouldn't surprise me if they got LLS plus a CC or GF

For Vegas, Wire are a good team but I think we'll be well up for that and treat it like a GF. If we've got a full team I reckon we'll win by 12+

Vegas will be less of an issue than the WCC so I don't see it as an issue, travelling apart. I think we have found our groove and based on last season the team (players, coaches, backroom staff) are able to raise their game when it matters. Obviously, every team will want to shoot Wigan down and rightly so, therefore it will be much harder than last season to win trophies. Having said that, I look at the other teams in the competition and I don't see much strengthening. I would be surprised if we didn't win the LLS, which increases our chances of winning the GF. As for the CC, much depends on the draw. Based on last season, the squad is good enough to cover injuries and suspensions, our young guys have a lot more experience under their belt and I expect them to be pushing for starting berths.

How do you rate Saints chances Stu?

Lots of moving parts to consider. I have a good feeling about Sailor, he has come over here with a great attitude, seems settled already and wants to prove a point. I think he will give us a bit of X factor that only really Welsby has given us before.

Feldt will go well, strong carries, sound defensively and will finish tries. If Murphy can stay fit then he will be a good signing too. I also think the new assistants have definitely provided some freshness and from interviews I've seen with some of the players, they do seem enthused with the coaching changes and intensity. Briers has a big job on with the attack but if he can get Welsby and Sailor linking well with Murphy and Feldt as finishers, we will go ok.

Those are the positives.

The negatives are that we are still short at centre- two really. Percival is quality on his day but injury prone now. Hurrell is a liability defensively and now a year older and coming off the back of a big injury. I can't believe he has been given another year.

We are still short of a quality 7 as Lomax is nowhere near the player he was. We are still short of props too and are hoping that Walmsley can stay fit and provide a couple of 15 min spells and that Paasi comes back better and fitter than last season. If we can get limited minutes out of those two then with Lees, Stephens and Delaney we will go ok. It's a big if though and I can see Walmsley still suffering with injuries.

Batchelor was woeful last season and needs a big year, so too Whitley. We do still have quality in the likes of Clark and Knowles but we are relying on a relatively low number of injuries. Last season killed us in that we had half the year with lots of forwards missing and the second half of the season, the forwards came back and the backs were injured.

I'm predicting a top 4 finish but no pots. Maybe a CC if the draw goes well and Wigan go out.

The fact is we have a Head Coach overseeing everything who is not good enough.

Saints pack got pretty much dog walked by everyone bar London and Hull. The pack is also weaker the coming season. They will scrape 5th or 6th.

I can really see Wigan doing the treble again. They are so far ahead of everyone else it’s embarassing

Thanks Stu, on the whole I agree with your synopsis. What’s your take on having 18 players out of contract at the end of next season? There appears to have been some inept planning. The biggest concern should be Knowles and Lees being able to speak to rival clubs.

Stu's assessment of Saints is pretty much my own view although I will add that I've seen some Saints fans saying "if we have better luck with injuries" and similar and I genuinely don't think that's a possibility. Although there's always an element of luck there's a law of diminishing returns when you (re)sign injury prone players. Saints have too many of those. I see similar to last year, or maybe a touch better, on the injury front but not enough to make a significant difference.

For Wigan I think we'll go well again but unlikely to match last year's heroics simply because we'll be competing on all fronts again. We did well to get our spine (O'Neil excepted) back in harness when it mattered and I don't think that's something that you can count on most years. Vegas will have an effect too. I'll go for another trophy and there or thereabouts in the others. That said, I wouldn't put it past this lot to raise their game again.

Like most Wigan fans I'm looking forward to the season again and that in itself is something to be happy about.

i think the good thing about Wigan, despite the success last year, is that we will still have some young hungry players who perhaps werent part of that (yes they were squad members, but maybe didnt play as much as they wanted). So the likes of Hill, Walters, Farrimond and O'Neill (through injury) should all be keen to show what they can do and win medals, and i think that'll keep pushing us through

as most say, i cant see another clean sweep, but we'll be there or there abouts when it matters

Agree about the injuries. The relentless, physical way of playing for 3 years under Woolf is starting to show with some players. They are older and wear and tear is showing. If anything they are likely to pick up more injuries not less.

We need to start providing some energy with youth and it will be really interesting to see how Briers works with the likes of Robertson and Whitby. I'm hoping Stephens gets more game time as he was bending the line when he did play last season and has an offload on him. He needs more minutes and for his fitness too.

As for the number of players out of contract at the same time, it's exceptionally poor planning and a lack of vision. I can't understand how that's happened when for years we've been really smart with our retention and more often than not our better players have stayed.

That said there is a large number of that 18 who will leave the club and not many who I would want to keep. Knowles and Lees are the crown jewels in the pack and I'm hoping we keep both. I do have a feeling though that Lees will go to the NRL and I don't blame him. Knowles should be the next captain and money thrown at him. We are a different team with and without him. Now that he is finally over the groin injury he has been carrying for over a year, you can see how important he is.

They have recruited really smartly and have been great with succession planning. There's no doubt they are set for a successful period.

I just hope elements of the fanbase don't get too entitled/silly and expect us to win the lot again and then bag the players and coaching staff when it doesn't happen. Only the Challenge Cup was reasonably comfortable to win last year for us and everything else needed some big moments going our way to get them done.

We look extremely strong again and the squad is that young it's still developing in many areas but nothing is a given and other sides are strengthening. They will obviously aim to win everything on offer again and I'm confident of some more success but we'll see how we go. The challenges of backing up an unbelievable 2024 and Vegas will make things tricky. If we win another challenge cup or Grand Final, that would be another superb season.