]

Cheers Danny,that one

So bell hits him with shoulder ,no attempt to wrap his arms and upends him and you say no way that is a shoulder charge

A perfectly good tackle look at the clip on Saints twitter feed

Why would any sane Wigan fan go on a St Helens twitter feed unless he (sorry, they, he, she, it, marshan) (don't want to be sent to court to the player of the match crew) wanted to do harm to themselves

On that, (God I'm glad i am a rational thinking person)

Can a man not be man of the match any more incidentally? If you are a woman in a woman's game I'd say you were the woman of the match. What is going on at all on this world. You aren't allowed to be an actress or a policewoman but can be a lioness on equal pay to a sport that they could only ever dream of reaching in a dream that they woke up from and had to go back to sleep to make sure it was a dream.

When it suits. Come on Stu I can tell you are a global warming kind of geezer where every weather event is caused by 'climate change'. It's hot, 'global warming' it's cold 'global warming' it's raining 'global warming' it's windy 'global warming'

It's only happened in the last couple of years too. Yes I'm drunk. I've been in Yaaarkshire all day, the land where the women need to get their vibrators pi$$ed.

You are thinking 'how do I respond to that'

Just do what I do, approach it with gay abandon. Blurt it out. I shall deal with the consequences tomorrow when I have my faculties back.

I used to think the same about Jukesays but I realised we just had different views on life. I completely respect his comments though even if I disagree with his life philosophy. I even posted one of his comments on the Latics board to try and reason with thwm. More chance of platting than reasoning with that lot.

There is 1 line in all that that I am definately going to pinch

that is a classic all over the shop reply,keep up the good work sir and carry on drinking,its a pearl of a reply

Anybody would be silly to not admit that Welsby is one of the best players in Superleague but is he the best? I don't think anybody could say that with a great deal of confidence. I think it's quite close between Welsby, Williams and French IMO and given the silly MOS voting system, Lachlan Lam may well walk away with the official award for 2023. It's interesting to look at trys and assists combined for those 4 guys and you can throw in Jai Field as well. If we're saying trys and assists are what a top level fullback or halfback will be judged on, 2 players are clear of the rest on that score when worked out on an average per game-

Welsby- Games-25 Trys-10 Assists-26 Combined T/A Avg per game-1.44
French- Games-25 Trys-16 Assists-28 Combined T/A Avg per game-1.76
Field-Games-19 Trys-14 Assists-19 Combined T/A Avg per game-1.74
Lam-Games-25 Trys-8 Assists-21 Combined T/A Avg per game-1.16
Williams-Games-21 Trys-11 Assists-19 Combined T/A Avg per game-1.43

Pretty good numbers from all 5 but 2 guys stand out above the rest. Those stats aren't the be all and end all of any argument about who is the best player in the league but If I compared Welsby to just Field, I'd be interested to know what puts Welsby ahead of him as being the best player in the league? (so not just better than Field but better than everyone else as well). He doesn't contribute as much per game as Field in terms of trys and assists and I would be pretty confident in saying Field is a better fullback defensively, so what is it that puts him clear? Personally I think French is the best player in the league but maybe I'm biased.

In many ways it’s a pointless argument. No Saints fan would swap Welsby for French/Field and no Wigan fan would swap French/Field.

I knew when I posted Welsby’s stats that French had better stats but I only referred to them as a comeback to a fan on here that described him as “average” which is laughable.

Also stats don’t paint the full picture. French scored 7 tries in one game this season didn’t he? The Hull game or was that last season? He’s also played games on the wing which would increase his tally too.

It’s all subjective but the only part I’m trying to point out is that there’s talk in Aus about clubs wanting to sign Welsby yet no one seems to really want to sign French or Field. I’m sure both are happy at Wigan but let’s have it right had they the chance to go back to the NRL they would’ve gone like a shot. As would Sironen and Matautia at Saints.

If we use the NRL as a yardstick for ability and competition then Welsby is more sought after than French or Field. I think there’s a reason for that.

7 or 8 or whatever it was, was last year

Welsby has an advantage over the other 2 in why he would be wanted more than the other 2

1/ He is physically more conditioned to their style etc.
Certainly more than Field, and has a Half back (which I think he could/should play) he'd be more suited than Fench who even we realise we are shoe Horning/adapting to that position, whilst the NRL teams.dont need to take that risk with French (in any position as they have an abundance of them)

2/Age - An NRL team would potentially take a risk on a younger player giving them more time to adapt to their requirements
He certainly has that advantage over French and Field

3/ Potential Being younger the ceiling is yet to be decided, the other 2 theirs has to an extent in the NRL

FWIW IMO
I couldn't give 2 hoots about who gets the next phone call from the NRL as it means nothing about who is better over in SL right here, right now
It could be argued that each clubs respective playing styles may contribute or disadvantage the perception or the contribution they are having to each team, how they are being coached etc.

As it stands Field & French for me at 1, but would take Welsby all day long as a 6

Quote: Stu M "In many ways it’s a pointless argument. No Saints fan would swap Welsby for French/Field and no Wigan fan would swap French/Field. I knew when I posted Welsby’s stats that French had better stats but I only referred to them as a comeback to a fan on here that described him as “average” which is laughable. Also stats don’t paint the full picture. French scored 7 tries in one game this season didn’t he? The Hull game or was that last season? He’s also played games on the wing which would increase his tally too. It’s all subjective but the only part I’m trying to point out is that there’s talk in Aus about clubs wanting to sign Welsby yet no one seems to really want to sign French or Field. I’m sure both are happy at Wigan but let’s have it right had they the chance to go back to the NRL they would’ve gone like a shot. As would Sironen and Matautia at Saints. If we use the NRL as a yardstick for ability and competition then Welsby is more sought after than French or Field. I think there’s a reason for that.'" The 7 tries was last year and I'm pretty sure he hasn't played on the wing since March. There was rumours that French was going back to the NRL all last season in fact he was being reported as signed by the Knights in late August - https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/rl ... gland-role The idea he isn't on or hasn't been on the NRL's radar is just wrong. Using NRL interest as a the be all and end all quality gauge is a bit silly IMO, there's loads more to it than just "the NRL are more interested in Welsby, he must be a better player". Even if their stats were all equal (which they aren't) Welsby would fit the age, Salary cap value and size profile better than either French or Field. Doesn't automatically make him a better player. There's been no reports of NRL interest in Morgan Knowles this last couple of years but Kai Pearce Paul is already signed to the NRL and there's noise about Morgan Smithies too, are they, in your opinion, better players than Knowles??

Quote: Stu M "In many ways it’s a pointless argument. No Saints fan would swap Welsby for French/Field and no Wigan fan would swap French/Field. I knew when I posted Welsby’s stats that French had better stats but I only referred to them as a comeback to a fan on here that described him as “average” which is laughable. Also stats don’t paint the full picture. French scored 7 tries in one game this season didn’t he? The Hull game or was that last season? He’s also played games on the wing which would increase his tally too. It’s all subjective but the only part I’m trying to point out is that there’s talk in Aus about clubs wanting to sign Welsby yet no one seems to really want to sign French or Field. I’m sure both are happy at Wigan but let’s have it right had they the chance to go back to the NRL they would’ve gone like a shot. As would Sironen and Matautia at Saints. If we use the NRL as a yardstick for ability and competition then Welsby is more sought after than French or Field. I think there’s a reason for that.'" The 7 tries was last year and I'm pretty sure he hasn't played on the wing since March. There was rumours that French was going back to the NRL all last season in fact he was being reported as signed by the Knights in late August - https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/rl ... gland-role The idea he isn't on or hasn't been on the NRL's radar is just wrong. Using NRL interest as a the be all and end all quality gauge is a bit silly IMO, there's loads more to it than just "the NRL are more interested in Welsby, he must be a better player". Even if their stats were all equal (which they aren't) Welsby would fit the age, Salary cap value and size profile better than either French or Field. Doesn't automatically make him a better player. There's been no reports of NRL interest in Morgan Knowles this last couple of years but Kai Pearce Paul is already signed to the NRL and there's noise about Morgan Smithies too, are they, in your opinion, better players than Knowles??

Good post. I also agree with you, I think he’d make a better 6.

It was last season the Hull game yeah and French has played only a handful of games on the wing this season. I'd be interested to see if Welsby would score loads of trys on that Saints left wing btw. If it's that easy to score from the wing, i'm not sure why Tee Ritson has only 2 trys.

I've said that the stats don't tell you everything, so I agree with that but there is also no way that we can use NRL clubs wanting Welsby more than French or Field as a yardstick either. Who are these clubs that want Welsby? how do we know clubs don't want Field/French? what money are they offering? What is Welsby on now, in comparison to Field/French? None of us know the answers, so that doesn't stack up either.

As you say most people wouldn't swap given the chance but I just can't understand how anybody could be confident enough to say 'Welsby is the best' without having no quantifiable way of backing that up. I'd have him in the top 5 players in the league and probably wouldn't say there is a single player who is out and out the best but I could statistically back up French (and Field) outperforming Welsby this season. The comparison with Field is the most interesting to me, as both play at fullback. If you score comfortably more trys per game (0.74 per game vs 0.4 per game), assist pretty much the same (1 per game vs 1.04 per game) and you are better in defence, I certainly couldn't say you're a lesser player than your opposite number but maybe I'm missing something. I think we could have a different conversation if Welsby moved to what I think is his position at stand off (as pointed out by Jukesays).