If the Catalans of the first half vs Leigh turn up, we'll wallop them. Second, then we've got a game on our hands, returning players or not.

Having said, it's almost getting to a 'win or bust' stage if we want to get into the top 4, and that usually means we turn up, so I wouldn't be surprised to see us go unbeaten until the middle 8s now.

16 of those were in the 17 last night, and we were still poor. Still think its not the coaching staff's fault?

Where did I say it's not the coaching staff's fault?

It was a general question to the Happy Clappers who think the coaching methods of SW & Co were fine and it was just a case of "When we got all our injured players back we'll thump the opposition".

I guess you sit with me on this one - we scraped our way through most games last season, found a bit of form at the back end when everyone else was losing theirs, just nosed the GF, and have been well and truly found out this season.

Somewhere in between I suppose. I thought we played terrible rugby for the majority of last season and would have wanted Wane out had we not won the Grand Final. However, since then we won the Grand Final whilst missing key players then won the World Club Challenge, so for me he now has enough credit in the bank to see how he goes next year regardless.

I don't think we could realistically expect the injured players to return and things to click straight away. They aren't used to playing together and morale must have been absolutely battered. Next season should the litmus test

Grimy at face value your argument is valid however, we have played shoite rugby now for 4 consecutive seasons and personally my loyalty has has been shattered which is something i never thought I would say.
Coaching wise playing wise something has to change otherwise ST sales will dive. Not knowing the stats but I'd wager a few bob that as reigning champions our ST growth after winning the GF will be the lowest in SL history because it's joyless watching us and gaining new fans has become almost impossible

Id have thought that ST would if not exploded then significantly rose after the gf win,they didnt seem to though,no mind there was the WCC winthat had to have an the desired effect surely? yet it doesnt seem to have done,there are so many competing pasttimes nowadays the sport has to deliver both in terms of winning AND entertainment,the two are indivisible to me,the crowds seem at a flat figure unless theres plenty of giveaways such as the half marathon etc,i shudder to think at the "super" 8s and the pretty much meaningless games the side faces.

FB Escare
RW Manfredi/Marshall
RC Gelling
LC Gildart
LW Burgess
SO Williams
SH S.Tomkins/Woods
P Sutton
H Powell
P Flower
SR Bateman
SR Farrell
LF O'Loughlin

S Tautai (P)
S Tomkins/Wells (P) (LF) (SR)
S Ganson (Hooker)
S New Prop?

...I like this, with some cap space to strengthen other areas?

Have you forgotten about Club, replace Davies for Mashall as Davies is a right sided winger, who is Woods.

Josh Woods? Young half back?

I didn't forget, I just don't see Clubb, Isa or any of the other players above whats listed. Rotation/Squad players at best. The cap space needs to be used to bring in cover at centre?

When Clubb is fit, he's our best prop!

Personally, I disagree. None of our props on current form would get nowhere near the Cas, Leeds or even Hull team.

I think Tautai and Sutton are the most promising, by a country mile. Clubb is a squad/rotation player, no more.

We cannot have star quality running through 1-13, squad depth is massively important and with FPN departing we will have valuable cap space to strengthen.

Each to their own though. I understand that.

Clubb would be one of the first names on the team sheet if I was picking the team. Squad depth is key you're right about that but for me, he's in the 17 every week if he's fit.

For me too. I can't share the enthusiasm some here have for Sutton either; I don't think he's really kicked on, and still has too many errors in him.

He was actually most effective during his stint in the Second Row last year. As a Prop he's average at the moment.