This is the issue for me. No real injury crisis in the front row and have not got on top from (and including) the Hudds game. Micky Mac, Bateman and Lockers will add some steel but it really should not be own to them to add that steel.

With the injuries we have you would be very optimistic to think we would beat Cas tonight but this result isn't the problem. It's the preceding few games that are disappointing where despite injuries mistakes mostly from senior players like Gells, TL (Hull game) and Tomkins (Leeds) led directly to tries. We have been our own worst enemy in these games.

Cas were no great shakes but still the better team.
We won't win SL games with 8 of our starting 17 missing.
We won't and we're not.
Davies has been mentioned in a previous reply and I do think Lewis will have a job on his hands to get his place back once fit.
Gelling and Burgess will probably get straight back in. Maybe next week?

Don't think they will make a great deal of difference. Without the ball it doesn't really matter who the 3/4's are. The two players we need back are Lockers and MM. Bateman would not go amiss either but he is due out for longer IIRC but Lockers and MM might instill something into the pack that is currently lacking.

Be interesting what happens short and long term to the two young wingers when players return, both look great players who are physically and mentally ready for SL.

Think they would do a great job on loan to some middle 8's sides

Agree with above comments. We might be missing our starting 1-5, but our pack is our first choice barring Bateman, Micky Mac and Lockers (both of which have been out for so long they cant really be classed as the starting pack - in my opinion). The forwards are letting the side down, without the go forward the young lads in the backs have no chance.

I also continue to take issue with Williams/Leuluai. George needs to get his head up and start to pick a pass more, this 'look at me' show is starting to grate. And i'm still unconvinced on Leuluai, his kicking game is woeful.

The writing was on the wall after 10 minutes IMO. They knocked on three times, gave up back to back penalties, all in their own half, and we forced a drop out, but after all that pressure we came up with 0 points. I don't claim to be an expert, but it looked to me like everything was too East-West when we got near their line, none of the forwards ever seemed to run onto the ball with purpose to either score, or at least draw defenders. Williams running up his own backside then giving an inside ball to a stationery Tautai on last tackle with 5 mins to go summed up our attacking guile to me, I doubt they practice that in training!

Cas although took 20 min to get into their attack, I thought their defence was the best I have seen from any team this season. Easily deserved winners (even though as a Wigan fan I had some issues with the ref )

Would just like to dispute the "packs lay the platform" adage. I think in the modern game and more for some teams than others its the work of the backs on tackles 1, 2 and 3 that really help the pack. Look at how many meters Gelling makes, how much better Warrington are (were) when Russel got them on the front foot. The work Ryan Hall/McGilvery does out of defence. The young lads on the wings were quality in the opposition half but coming out of our 20 we really missed the back 5s size and strength imo. Pack was still a little off but I think that is mostly due to the Cas D, they put an incredible amount of effort into stopping our pack knowing we couldn't use plan b which was the quicker backs to make yards

The kicking game last night was woeful. Probably the worst for many a season. If it isn't dawning on people yet that Tommy is a poor replacement for Smith then I don't know what you are watching.

People counter with "Well Tommy takes on the line". Yes he does. And how many breaks has he made? His tackling is certainly better, if that's how you want to judge your half backs, fine. For me I want a runner and a kicker. Williams is the runner and because Tommy can't kick there is too much pressure on George to do everything. We saw the outcome of that last night when they had completely run out of ideas by the end. Tommy was supposed to be captain but there was no organisation at all either.

There were still good performances last night from the back three, Tautai and Joel who was my MoM

I'm starting to think that swapping Tommy with Sam Powell might be a solution. Because last year, when we had loads of injuries too, we were winning tight games, because we were organised and effective. Boring true, but give me boring if it comes with two points.

Was waiting / expecting this post

Tommy was poor but Smith wouldn't have won us that game last night. As much as I've moaned about it in the past we need at least a couple of our starting back five fully fit and taking the ball up. Our pack is used to that help and looks lost without it.

And?

Do I have a point or am I missing something? Because to my eyes the half backs are not working as a pair. Last night all the expectations on George got to him and he was poor. Last season Matthy organised and kicked and George did the rest. This year George has it all to do, and IMO he is struggling because it is unfair to expect one man to do everything.

To be honest I don't think you have a point.

Comparing Smith to TL, I think Tommy is a superior player in all aspects except place kicking though a Smith is not as good as some make him out to be in that either.

Last night we came up against a Cas team who are on form, top of the league, and averaging over 40 points a game. Powell has said it was their best performance of the season. Given that we had 8 of the preferred starting 13 and some of the first choice backups missing plus Powell playing with busted ribs losing 27 - 10 is far from a disaster.

Others have talked about a near full strength pack, that's nonsense, the only position we are at full strength is prop and imo that's the weakest area of the team. TT made a few good runs which catch the eye but was very suspect and slow in defence

This is not a criticism of the kids as they are finding their way in the first team however we had no go forward at the start of sets which lays the platform for the big guys to take over. Our kids were unsurprisingly dominated and the fist play the ball was consistently slow. Manfredi & Burgess were sorely missed in that respect. Forsyth has talent but is demonstrating he is not ready for the 1st team this year and the other centre is a back up SR who lacks pace.

Williams looks to me as though he is trying to do it all himself, Cas did a good job on him though I think he helped them a bit last night by not having faith in those outside him. Let's not forget, though a fantastic talent he is still young himself.

In short, losing 3 in a row is far from pleasing there's plenty of life in this team yet. I'd expect to have 3 or 4 out injured at this stage of the season. We simply have too many. That number kids can't be expected to perform week in week out in the first team.

A fair assessment IMO.
EDIT: What's the story re Powell?

Do you not remember our god-awful attack last year? We lost IMO because we were trying to go around a team that was mullering us down the middle. We needed forwards to run with purpose, win the collision, get a quick ptb with defenders drawn in, then the halves have some space and momentum to work with. I fail to see how Matty Smith would have rectified that. The pack was to blame, and I'm not sure Bateman and Lockers would have fixed it either, they are hardly heavyweights.