I'm in agreement with you Reaper. We have no top Aussies, no top RU converts and can't retain our own best players in many cases. How can the current standard be higher than in recent years (who cares if it's better than the sixties btw)?

That's an excellent post. I don't want the low standard of the league to mask how much we can improve. I've never once stated I think we are a poor team, quite the opposite, it's been pure frustration at how bad we have been for way too much of this season, when we are capable of so much more.

I don't want us to accept that as long as we don't slip as much as the rest we will be fine, I want improvement and new ideas, not the same old drab play followed by the same excuses, which is all talked away because somehow we are still better than the majority. Being better than a bad bunch doesn't make you good, just less bad.

The season has been a strange one. We averaged 14 points a game in the first 23 rounds yet the defence dragged us into contention.

Since the 8s started were averaging around 30 points a game yet SW is still getting slated for poor attack. I think people forget how young this squad is and a lot of them are learning on the job. If we can keep the core element together we could build something really special. A win on Saturday will be a massive boost to players and another huge step in their development.

SW should be given credit for the blooding of the youngsters over his tenure here because had it gone wrong it would have been his neck on the line. Compare that to other sides eg Saints where they would rather swap five players positions rather than give a young lad out of the 19s a game

I'd agree with that, but also mention what Matty Smith said in an interview last week.

Smith said: “We’re known as a structured side, aren’t we?

“But the off-the-cuff stuff seems to be working more than the structure at the minute.

“We know we’ve got players who can win games.

“It’s alright keep saying (the attack will click), but actions are bigger, and over the last four weeks we’ve played better.



That to me says the players, and hopefully Wane now understand that their tactics were wrong, we have to let our better players play and let them express themselves. If Wane has admitted as much then I have no quarrels at all, it shows that he's learned from his players how best this team works.

Saints Fan in peace here!

I have spoken to Shaun Wane on many occasions and his sheer desire for Wigan to succeed is unequalled. He knows he has made mistakes in the way Wigan attack and in my opinion Paul Deacon was never replaced with a like for like coach and I expect that to be rectified in the winter months. For a man who has lead Wigan to the last four Grand Finals some of the treatment of him is woeful at best. He won in 2013, Ben Flower's dismissal in 2014 killed any chance of Wigan winning the game despite one huge effort from you with 12 men (a huge effort instilled by Wane "never say die attitude". As a Saints fan if Flower doesn't commit that moment of madness I do believe Wigan would have won that particular Grand Final. Last year you came up against a truly great Leeds side and you did have your chances to win the game but in sport sometimes it just isn't your day, I've obviously experienced that as a Saints fan on a few occasions at Grand Finals as you all know.

This year Wigan haven't been great I understand that. You have had some horrendous injuries to pivotal people McIllorum, O'Loughlin, Manfredi and more recently Tomkins (not to mention other injuries and the fact you lost John Bateman for the best part of 2 months with a internal suspension). The sheer determination to over come adversity is a testament to your coach. Wane is a highly regarded coach and if he wins the GF tomorrow he should go down as a Wigan legend for life.

Enjoy the game tomorrow and have a safe journey

You speak good sense my friend.

Shaun will be here for many years to come and thank God for that.

I guess his detractors on here will have found Saturday quite bittersweet.

It wasn't bittersweet for me, I've never wanted anything but success. We've been fortunate this season that SL is as poor as it is, no way should a team with the injuries we've had and such poor attack be finishing second in the league and winning a grand final. But it isn't our fault we are the best of a bad bunch, I just know we can and should have been even better at times. I'm as elated as the next man that we won, and I look forward to getting our players back and seeing things improve even more.