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Quote: DaveO "He marked his opposite centre out of the game v Wales.

His own England centre partner (some ex South African whose name escapes me) was poorer than he was by some distance.

England were 10 points up when he left the pitch v Wales. He didn't enter the field until England were already well beat v Oz. He wasn't picked in the last game v Uruguay which you might have thought he would be to give him more experience given it was a dead rubber.

He was being lined up as the excuse as soon as England lost to Wales.'"

I think if you read the press reports no one is actually blaming Burgess. They are using his inclusion to highlight Lancasters poor decision making. That is another thing entirely. Burgess is running home because he didn't get things his own way.

The whole sorry saga is a mess. I'd have more respect for him if he stayed at Bath and learned the game properly instead of quitting. He must take responsibility for his own shocking decision making. Firstly for leaving League then for quitting Union.

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Quote: Aboveusonlypie "I think if you read the press reports no one is actually blaming Burgess. They are using his inclusion to highlight Lancasters poor decision making. That is another thing entirely. Burgess is running home because he didn't get things his own way.

The whole sorry saga is a mess. I'd have more respect for him if he stayed at Bath and learned the game properly instead of quitting. He must take responsibility for his own shocking decision making. Firstly for leaving League then for quitting Union.'"

There may be lots of sympathy being shown to him now but that doesn't excuse his awful treatment by some of the media and ex players earlier. There was plenty said about him that was way off the mark, a fact highlighted by Will Greenwod at least.
Also, whilst I agree he has to stand by his decisions made, your given reason for his about turn is simply your opinion I presume? Or has he told you personally? Another way of looking at it could be that he has been big enough to realise he had made a terrible blunder in the first place and has put things right.
Anyhow, it's all done and dusted now. Or would be, if Mick Ford would just shut up for once. He seems to be in the press every day yapping on about it.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy "There may be lots of sympathy being shown to him now but that doesn't excuse his awful treatment by some of the media and ex players earlier. There was plenty said about him that was way off the mark, a fact highlighted by Will Greenwod at least.
Also, whilst I agree he has to stand by his decisions made, your given reason for his about turn is simply your opinion I presume? Or has he told you personally? Another way of looking at it could be that he has been big enough to realise he had made a terrible blunder in the first place and has put things right.
Anyhow, it's all done and dusted now. Or would be, if Mick Ford would just shut up for once. He seems to be in the press every day yapping on about it.'"


Mike Ford seems to have totally failed to grasp that Sam Burgess didn't go to Rugby Union to play for Bath.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy "There may be lots of sympathy being shown to him now but that doesn't excuse his awful treatment by some of the media and ex players earlier. There was plenty said about him that was way off the mark, a fact highlighted by Will Greenwod at least.
Also, whilst I agree he has to stand by his decisions made, your given reason for his about turn is simply your opinion I presume? Or has he told you personally? Another way of looking at it could be that he has been big enough to realise he had made a terrible blunder in the first place and has put things right.
Anyhow, it's all done and dusted now. Or would be, if Mick Ford would just shut up for once. He seems to be in the press every day yapping on about it.'"

Burgess has been quoted saying he missed his family. Now where have we heard that before? Seems like every sportsman who wants to break a contract suddenly has bouts of homesickness.

The word hubris sums this up perfectly. Having conquered Rugby League he thought he could play an easier game and do just as well. I wonder if Sam spoke to Joel Tomkins about his experience. It seems that he took advice from those he wanted to hear from, Farrell, Ford and his agent, rather than some people who might tell him to think again.

Whilst his defence was always going to be good, his attacking skills were poor for inside centre. In fact with him being fast tracked into the team at the expense of better players, no wonder there was a backlash from within Union.

He went for the money and the glory, and who could deny him that? But as for whingeing about his press treatment, well, that's a bit lame IMO. If even someone as ignorant as me could see it, I really don't see why he couldn't. I posted at the time that Sam Burgess wouldn't make a Union star in million years and I was right. If I could see it I'll bet thousands of others could too. He ain't no Sonny Bill Williams. That much is clear from watching them both in the NRL. Why on earth he thought he could master Union in less than a year and play in a World Cup shows severe delusional thinking on his part and that of his advisors.

Mike Ford as Bath coach is asked questions by the press and he responds, that's his job. Why should he shut up? Mind you, I'm betting he feels pretty let down by Burgess, and the Chairman of Bath will too, who bankrolled the whole thing. Ford's advice was to stick around and make a flank forward and IMO Burgess should have done just that. He was on pretty good money for someone who is still learning the game.

We are yet to see how this will affect his RL career as well. No-one, apart from SBW, has actually come back to RL from RU and been as good.

FWIW I wish him well. Anyone can make mistakes. He has owned up to his. I hope that he becomes part of the England team that beats Australia next year. Of course we'll have to find some half backs first (maybe Johnny Wilkinson could come out of retirement and give RL a try? - which is about as fanciful as Sam Burgess smashing it in Union)

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I would agree that Burgess never looked a good fit for Union from the get go as a back. I do think he could have made it as a flanker, but that is pure hindsight on my part. I don't for one minute think Bath signed him with a pack position in mind. Re Mick Ford and the press, he could always draw a line in the sand but instead chooses to prolong his own agony. Finally, to SB's credit he hasn't (as far as I know) complained about his treatment by either the press or pundits.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy " Finally, to SB's credit he hasn't (as far as I know) complained about his treatment by either the press or pundits.'"


Why would he? The book will be out soon...... icon_wink.gif

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In this interview, Sam does have a dig at the union establishment/media & says his heart wasn't really in it. Fair enough, nobody thought he was going to Bath for any other reason but the money.

Looking forward to seeing him in an England shirt next year.

rlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-league/news/article/480/10062653/sam-burgess-has-revealed-the-reasons-why-he-stepped-away-from-rugby-unionrl

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I have some sympathy with Ford with losing Burgess, but he's certainly tried rewriting history in terms of saying that he always intended Burgess to play in the forwards. If you look at his comments when Burgess signed he said that England saw him as a centre but he was open minded about it. Which in hindsight is truly incredible. Whilst Burgess should have been smart enough to admit he'd never be a centre (in either code), it really beggars belief that a coach would go along with signing a big money, big name player and not actually know where he'd play.

The spite from ex-players, and now Ford (and seemingly Bath players in general or the captain at least) may affect some RL players' view of going to RU, but probably the more important longer-term effect will be the fact that England will never fast track an RL convert again. That means that even outside backs would face playing just club rugby for a year or so before being considered by England. That makes going to RU a very different proposition, and pretty much all about money. Burgess for sure never went to play club rugby - he wanted to be part of the RUWC and play internationals at Twickenham. No doubt Joel Tomkins, Henry Paul and Farrell Snr did the same.

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Quote: BrisbaneRhino "I have some sympathy with Ford with losing Burgess, but he's certainly tried rewriting history in terms of saying that he always intended Burgess to play in the forwards. If you look at his comments when Burgess signed he said that England saw him as a centre but he was open minded about it. Which in hindsight is truly incredible. Whilst Burgess should have been smart enough to admit he'd never be a centre (in either code), it really beggars belief that a coach would go along with signing a big money, big name player and not actually know where he'd play.

The spite from ex-players, and now Ford (and seemingly Bath players in general or the captain at least) may affect some RL players' view of going to RU, but probably the more important longer-term effect will be the fact that England will never fast track an RL convert again. That means that even outside backs would face playing just club rugby for a year or so before being considered by England. That makes going to RU a very different proposition, and pretty much all about money. Burgess for sure never went to play club rugby - he wanted to be part of the RUWC and play internationals at Twickenham. No doubt Joel Tomkins, Henry Paul and Farrell Snr did the same.'"



'Grand statements' made here with little to back it up.

'England will never fast track a RL convert again'-how can you possibly say that?
'Burgess never went to play club rugby'-how do you know?
'Burgess would never make it at centre'-how do you know? Already a full international, don't forget a union centre is far different to league, at times used a 'crash centre' to break the line then offload, and also defend solidly in midfield, take Brad Barritt for example.

While I see your points I always find it dangerous making statements with nothing to back them up, just your option.

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If Bastareaud can be a centre, so can SB...

But yeah, whilst no-one *knows* 100% what's inside his head, I think that "Burgess never went to play club rugby" doesn't sound too controversial a statement to me.

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Quote: moto748 "If Bastareaud can be a centre, so can SB...

But yeah, whilst no-one *knows* 100% what's inside his head, I think that "Burgess never went to play club rugby" doesn't sound too controversial a statement to me.'"



Not about controversy, it's about comments with no backing. That's the issue with this chat, too many options which are supported by anything.

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Yes, but it's about opinions, isn't it? If anyone believes SB was happy to swap Syndney for Bath without the additional bonus of international rugby they are deluded. In my opinion.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy "Yes, but it's about opinions, isn't it? If anyone believes SB was happy to swap Syndney for Bath without the additional bonus of international rugby they are deluded. In my opinion.'"


The moment the World Cup was over, everyone was asking what he would do next? No one but Mike Ford seemed to think he'd be content to stay and play for Bath.

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Quote: jinkin jimmy "Yes, but it's about opinions, isn't it? If anyone believes SB was happy to swap Syndney for Bath without the additional bonus of international rugby they are deluded. In my opinion.'"

Doesn't it go right back to who contacted who right at the start? Was it SB who started talking to Twickers or the other way round? Did the Union mob see a coup potential in their latest attempt to score one over us?

He was certainly sold a pup either way.

I genuinely can't believe SB looked at his league future options and decided "nah, I can do much better in rainy GB in a sport I know little about away from family & barbies on the beach".
We'll never know until when (if) he writes his memoirs (with colour-in sections or otherwise - seen Hock's latest missive yet?) or Wikileaks hack Bath's or Twickenham's systems.

In the meantime, all we've got is the Union hacks blaming him for disrupting the otherwise oh-so-harmonious England camp (anyone hear the cr*p spouted on 5Live last night?) and apparently some players throwing their dummies around because their bosom-buddies were denied a place in the squad. Even some of the NRL hacks down-under are getting in on the act. I'd like to know what he's done to P off so many people. That green-eyed envy monster is certainly busy. SB is head & shoulders above many even in Oz & Kiwi League and 10 times the athlete of any of the Union ponces we have over here.

Welcome back from the dark side, Sam.

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Quote: CyberPieMan "Doesn't it go right back to who contacted who right at the start? Was it SB who started talking to Twickers or the other way round? Did the Union mob see a coup potential in their latest attempt to score one over us?

He was certainly sold a pup either way.

I genuinely can't believe SB looked at his league future options and decided "nah, I can do much better in rainy GB in a sport I know little about away from family & barbies on the beach".
We'll never know until when (if) he writes his memoirs (with colour-in sections or otherwise - seen Hock's latest missive yet?) or Wikileaks hack Bath's or Twickenham's systems.

In the meantime, all we've got is the Union hacks blaming him for disrupting the otherwise oh-so-harmonious England camp (anyone hear the cr*p spouted on 5Live last night?) and apparently some players throwing their dummies around because their bosom-buddies were denied a place in the squad. Even some of the NRL hacks down-under are getting in on the act. I'd like to know what he's done to P off so many people. That green-eyed envy monster is certainly busy. SB is head & shoulders above many even in Oz & Kiwi League and 10 times the athlete of any of the Union ponces we have over here.

Welcome back from the dark side, Sam.'"


This is the main thing, isn't it? All this fuss ... and yet do we really care?

I know I don't.

I'm just glad he's back where he belongs. Hopefully his bad experience will put others off making the same stupid mistake. It might also make Union think twice about chucking Monopoly money at top athletes in a completely different sport.

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