FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Smith |
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| This is definitely drifting off topic but I agree that there is something of a slight weakness at 9. I think McIlorum is fantastic there, he brings real aggression in defense and, for me, the pack seems more organised when he is on the field leading them about near the ruck. Despite this I think it's foolish to think a hooker can be fully effective if they have to consistently play 80 minute stints. The drop in intensity when either Williams, Logan or Powell fill in is very noticeable and often is the catalyst for a momentum switch favouring the opposition.
A top quality hooker would be 2nd top of any wish list I had for the squad (only just behind a new fullback/centre to cover Sarginson if he dropped back there). Ideally I would have chosen Clarke; the lad is lightening around the play the ball and would provide a spark the like of which we haven't had since Sam Tomkins (although arguably Green brought us this in big games). Godinet looked handy there over the summer, he could prove a useful rotation hooker until a youngster of sufficient quality emerges. A couple more alternatives off the top of my head could be Lunt or that young lad at the Rabbitohs who came through last season when Isaac Luke was injured (can't remember his name but he played like Luke jnr., the lads going to be top quality).
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| Apisai Koroisau
And I agree; what a talent he looked! The Bunnies sold him on to the Panthers, though. Would have loved to have seen him here. Same goes for James Segeyaro.
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| I'm not sure we can afford Smith at 7 and McIlorum at 9 unless Williams develops a lot quicker than expected to be honest. Every other top SL team has at least one playmaker who is capable of something special to make a break ball in hand. That means the defence have to pay him extra attention, which in turn creates room for the support runners. With our 6, 7 and 9 you don't need to worry about what they will do too much, only who they will pass to.
Williams is still developing, and McIlorum makes up for it with his aggressive defence. Smith is a weak defender and tends to go missing in big games, I'm not sure whether he has enough about him to justify his spot long term. Maybe Powell will eventually take over, he seems to have more to his game. If I was IL I'd at least have a look at what is on the market for next season though. We simply aren't dangerous enough in attack for me currently.
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| Quote: Grimmy "I'm not sure we can afford Smith at 7 and McIlorum at 9 unless Williams develops a lot quicker than expected to be honest. Every other top SL team has at least one playmaker who is capable of something special to make a break ball in hand. That means the defence have to pay him extra attention, which in turn creates room for the support runners. With our 6, 7 and 9 you don't need to worry about what they will do too much, only who they will pass to.
Williams is still developing, and McIlorum makes up for it with his aggressive defence. Smith is a weak defender and tends to go missing in big games, I'm not sure whether he has enough about him to justify his spot long term. Maybe Powell will eventually take over, he seems to have more to his game. If I was IL I'd at least have a look at what is on the market for next season though. We simply aren't dangerous enough in attack for me currently.'"
And Smith is the best kicker we've had since Trent Barrett. He does his job just fine. If there are inadequacies at 6 and 9 you can't blame Smith.
I'll keep the current England scrum half, twice running Dream Team scrum half and double winning scrum half thank you.
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "And Smith is the best kicker we've had since Trent Barrett. He does his job just fine. If there are inadequacies at 6 and 9 you can't blame Smith.
I'll keep the current England scrum half, twice running Dream Team scrum half and double winning scrum half thank you.'"
Deacon?
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| Quote: Grimmy "I'm not sure we can afford Smith at 7 and McIlorum at 9 unless Williams develops a lot quicker than expected to be honest. Every other top SL team has at least one playmaker who is capable of something special to make a break ball in hand. That means the defence have to pay him extra attention, which in turn creates room for the support runners. With our 6, 7 and 9 you don't need to worry about what they will do too much, only who they will pass to.
Williams is still developing, and McIlorum makes up for it with his aggressive defence. Smith is a weak defender and tends to go missing in big games, I'm not sure whether he has enough about him to justify his spot long term. Maybe Powell will eventually take over, he seems to have more to his game. If I was IL I'd at least have a look at what is on the market for next season though. We simply aren't dangerous enough in attack for me currently.'"
I think in some ways you have hit the nail on the head, McIlorum for all his defensive qualities does not offer a strong attacking game in the traditional sense of the hooking role (very few breaks/assists or even tries) and Smith is an organiser type HB, although I think his defence has improved and is not weak and normally does have a good kicking game. Williams might be the player to add that something different but it is a lot to ask for young player just getting his first chance as a starting half, time will tell if he can but I think fans will need to be patient. This season will tell us a lot about who, if anyone, can step into the more attacking HB role which Green did last year. I do think it is right to at least give one of the younger players a chance to make a claim on the spot before looking at brining anyone in.
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| Quote: Pieman "Deacon?'"
IIRC Deacon was carrying an injury the whole time he played. It affected his overall kicking, and for example, I don't think he kicked one single conversion even when Pat was injured. Certainly a better kicker than Smith in his Bulls days though.
As an aside to this Smith has improved his own goal kicking this season. He kicked two from way out wide at Widnes that secured a point and his kick in the last minute on Saturday showed a lot of bottle.
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| Smiths kicking game isn't actually that good IMO, especially this year. From deep he barely every finds space and either the FB or wingers normally take the ball on the full. But more or just as importantly his attacking kicking game is woeful. The only option he seems to have is the kick across to the winger which he rarely gets right, it's either too deep and easy to diffuse or too short meaning even if we get the ball it's an easy tackle for the opposition. I don't know why we don't try mix it up even if it was to drop that type of kick a little short for the SR/Centre to attack ala McQueen at Souths.
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| Looking at a NRL OOC list which I'm assuming is correct Chris Sandow is free at the end of the season and Kieran Foran is rumoured to be going to the Eels. I think Sandow would be a great signing for a couple of years and I would actually play him at fullback. Last year he deputised there for Hayne a few times and on occasion produced MOM performances.
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| Quote: Grimmy "I'm not sure we can afford Smith at 7 and McIlorum at 9 unless Williams develops a lot quicker than expected to be honest. Every other top SL team has at least one playmaker who is capable of something special to make a break ball in hand. That means the defence have to pay him extra attention, which in turn creates room for the support runners. With our 6, 7 and 9 you don't need to worry about what they will do too much, only who they will pass to.
Williams is still developing, and McIlorum makes up for it with his aggressive defence. Smith is a weak defender and tends to go missing in big games, I'm not sure whether he has enough about him to justify his spot long term. Maybe Powell will eventually take over, he seems to have more to his game. If I was IL I'd at least have a look at what is on the market for next season though. We simply aren't dangerous enough in attack for me currently.'"
The fullback is a playmaker in the modern game in my opinion. If we bring in someone exciting there then I'm sure we could carry the more solid but unspectacular pair of Micky and Smith as well as a youngster at hb. I do agree that we are missing just a little bit of something at the moment - hopefully Hampshire can develop into this player be that at stand off or full back.
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: DP_wwrlfc "Smiths kicking game isn't actually that good IMO, especially this year. From deep he barely every finds space and either the FB or wingers normally take the ball on the full. But more or just as importantly his attacking kicking game is woeful. The only option he seems to have is the kick across to the winger which he rarely gets right, it's either too deep and easy to diffuse or too short meaning even if we get the ball it's an easy tackle for the opposition. I don't know why we don't try mix it up even if it was to drop that type of kick a little short for the SR/Centre to attack ala McQueen at Souths.'"
We must be watching a different bloke, because to me this describes Wigan's kicking with Finch and Leuluai in the team.
Smith, since he joined us, finds ground most of the time unless he's Kicking from his own 20/30 metre line due to the poor ground made by the props etc. His 40/20 rate is second only to Danny Brough (though I haven't checked the stats I think I am correct) and his short kicking was just fine when Pat Richards was in the team(someone who could actually catch).
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "And Smith is the best kicker we've had since Trent Barrett. He does his job just fine. If there are inadequacies at 6 and 9 you can't blame Smith.
I'll keep the current England scrum half, twice running Dream Team scrum half and double winning scrum half thank you.'"
I'm not sure Smith does do his job just fine though. If he is going to be an organising half back then he needs to really step to the forefront and take control of the big games. Too often on my way home from a big game or after watching it back I'll think back through each player's performance and struggle to remember any major influence from Smith, particularly in the second half as a rule.
The dream team and England selections say more about the quality of the other halves than they do about Smith, having said that I'd swap him for Walsh, Brough, Sinfield (age not withstanding), Dureau or Carney without hesitation. I'm not settled on wanting rid of him, but I would be at least having a look who is on offer if I was IL, perhaps with Smith moving to the bench hooker role if he will stay to do that.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1979 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2012 | 12 years | |
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Jan 2018 | Jan 2018 | LINK |
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: Grimmy "The dream team and England selections say more about the quality of the other halves than they do about Smith, having said that I'd swap him for Walsh, Brough, Sinfield (age not withstanding), Dureau or Carney without hesitation. I'm not settled on wanting rid of him, but I would be at least having a look who is on offer if I was IL, perhaps with Smith moving to the bench hooker role if he will stay to do that.'"
I'd agree with all of those. We wouldn't get Walsh but Sinfield might be a bit left field, I doubt he'd come but if he did come he would certainly replace Matty. However I'd pair Brough/Dureau/Carney with Matty not replace him. It'll be interesting to see how Kelly and Campese go this weekend against us as I wouldn't have minded either of them.
I think Matty has always had his doubters from Saints onwards. I think he's a good pro, a good bloke and a good player. He has his limitations, but by and large he's been an excellent signing for us. I think there are other places in the team that we could improve before Matty needs replacing IMO. (full back, right centre, left wing, stand off, props, hooker for example!!!)
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "I'd agree with all of those. We wouldn't get right but Sinfield might be a bit left field, I doubt he'd come but if he did come he would certainly replace Matty. However I'd pair Brough/Dureau/Carney with Matty not replace him. It'll be interesting to see how Kelly and Campese go this weekend against us as I wouldn't have minded either of them.
I think Matty has always had his doubters from Saints onwards. I think he's a good pro, a good bloke and a good player. He has his limitations, but by and large he's been an excellent signing for us. I think there are other places in the team that we could improve before Matty needs replacing IMO. (full back, right centre, left wing, stand off, props, hooker for example!!!)'"
We nearly got ourselves onto the same page there until you mentioned right centre, super Gells all the way! He made nearly 200 metres against Brisbane with groin strain btw. I bet the forwards bloody love him for the amount of hard yards he takes off their hands! Prop wise Ithink we will be a lot better if we can get Flower, Clubb, Mossop and Tautai all out there at the same time, Sutton looks a bloody good prospect as well, definitely room for a solid older head if we can get hold of one though, there's an injury or two between those four so we need contingencies (preferably not involving Crosby, who I would loan out to a good Championship side like Leigh for the season)
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "
I think Matty has always had his doubters from Saints onwards. I think he's a good pro, a good bloke and a good player. He has his limitations, but by and large he's been an excellent signing for us. I think there are other places in the team that we could improve before Matty needs replacing IMO.'"
Fully agree. As for not offering enough from unstructured play, sure, he's no Shaun Johnson (who is?), but then, neither is Cooper Cronk, and everyone says he's the bee's knees. Not saying Matty is as good as CC, of course, but still...
All that said, he still needs to take the lead right now, especially playing alongside kids. And Williams did show a few good touches against the Broncos.
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