Yes repeatedly stabbing them would be a problem in the eyes of the law. It's the repeated bit that's the problem. You can only use reasonable force to defend yourself. That is where Flower went wrong. His first punch would probably have resulted in a penalty. What he then did was hit an unconscious man on the ground. I don't know where the cold blooded bit comes in as we are discussing things happening in the heat of the moment. You then resort as usual to abuse so I will leave it there.

Or to but it in context; have you never said something like ''I'd kill him for that'' (or something similar)? Did you mean you'd actually kill him? I'm guessing not. Wane was trying to fire his team up and used emotive language. He didn't mean for his players to go out and attack someone in the manner Flower did yesterday. In fact, as I remember, there were no 'unsavoury' incidents in that particular game. How was that the case if he sent them out to do that? To be honest I'm sure you, and all the other posters currently jumping on this particular bandwagon, are already aware that this is utterly ridiculous. I would certainly hope so anyway.

This is the point in which people should put away their pitchforks, call off the Witch hunts, let the rfl do their job and put this all to bed.
He knows the consequences of his actions, he knows how he has let people and himself down.
Put this in the history books, and leave him alone, he's a young lad at the end of the day, can anyone of us say we haven't let ourselves down in our life? He's just unfortunately had his moment in front of the national media, leave him alone and let him geton with his eextended off season, carrying on could be detrimental to his mental health and no one wants people in a situation like Terry Newton, this witch hunt is the type of thing that can send people over the edge.

I agree with you (I'm not a Wigan supporter BTW ) the public viewing of the video is, shall we say, a tad unfortunate, a PR disaster of substantial scale, the sort of thing that SHOULD have the Wigan board of directors pulling their hair out and wondering how the hell they ever agreed to do this, its a classic shot to the foot and is an embarrassment of all who are involved.

Without the video I agree, you have one player who had the red mist and did something very stupid, he gets punished and the club are not connected to his stupidity in any way, with the video in the public domain prior to the game with the approval of the board you suddenly elevate the incident to a tacit agreement and no amount of humble apologies after the event can change what was publically said in that dressing room by the head coach.

Great post Yed and total respect for you as well.

This has been my point all along, he's messed up a major way, he's apologised, it's an isolated incident by one player, not a season full of career ending cheap shots like all the band wagon jumpers are claiming.

It's an isolated incident, let the lad try and make up for it.

Well said Yed! At last, a bit of sanity. It was bad. We all know that as, I'm sure, does Flower. Some of the stuff being said on the back of that is bordering on the hysterical. As bad as it was, I think we need to remember that it's not like it was the worst injury ever inflicted on a rugby field. Hohaia is perfectly alright the last I heard!

I don't think many of us have punched and unconscious and defenceless man though, it's a major talking point caused by nobody but Flower himself.
As soon as we stop commenting on things because someone might get a bit upset it will be the end of any discussion. Nobody (that I have seen) has commented on Ben Flower's overall personality or attacked him personally, just commented that his behaviour is unacceptable. He might be a decent guy, but what he did was out of order and people will talk about it.

No I don't think I have actually but then again I'm a very calm sort of person who doesn't work in an industry where aggression is one of the tools of the trade and everyone has to accept that winding up your players to face aggression with equal or greater aggression is part of the game, there isn't enough money in the world to convince me that I can pick up a rugby ball and run full pelt into 17 stone of pure muscle and a possible forearm to the chin, but thats why I pay my money to stand on the terraces and watch rather than participate.

I'm not convinced that Wane doesn't regularly use this style of winding up his team prior to a game and its certainly worked for your team, maybe this morning he might be thinking that he should spend the winter thinking about a different form of motivation, because giving a set of big daft lads permission to go out and do physical harm to opponents has just backfired in a manner that could have been predicted.

Every person on here, Wigan fan or not has said it was unacceptable, Flower and club have said its unacceptable, and both have apologised to Hohaia and the St Helens club.

Why you need to repeat what he's done like it's something nobody knows is beyond me. I know Wigan are the most disliked club, but it's like all the haters dreams came true all at once, they couldn't care less about Hohaia and his well being as I've read little concern for his well being, it's all negative against Flower and the Wigan club. First thoughts should be with Hohaia, but they aren't, it's just an unbelievable opportunity for the Wigan haters to have a go an recycle the same point.

Let it go, it's done. Wish Hohaia a speedy recovery, let flower learn his fate and deal with it.

Just for your info, I don't particularly "hate" Wigan.
I am concerned for Hohaia's well-being. I said at the time he should have been forced to attend hospital for a scan after such a serious impact to the head when he was unconscious as some brain injuries are not immediately apparent and can only become serious a considerable amount of time after the impact (Natasha Richardson, Michael Scumacher and Petr Cech are the obvious examples).

Good post

To be fair however. Having played the game from the age of 11 until 25 (34 now) i can honestly say that pretty much every coach i played for, liked to give a vitriolic team talk like the one Wane gave in the documentary.

Phrases like "smash him" and "knock him out" were totally common place and you would have to be naive (not suggesting that you are naive) to think that this type rhetoric is not used by a lot of professional coaches.

Being brutal and targeting play makers is part and parcel of the game. As is whipping up your troops with macho team talks.

Again

Great post Yed

Can you do us all a favor and post it on the VT also?

Some of the comments on there regarding wishing horrible things on Flower are pretty sickening.

Maybe but theres brutal in the tackle which is great. Then there's out and out thuggery . No place in our game imo

Totally agree

Flower committed stupid act and deserves a long ban.

But there is thuggery in a lot of games as is punching players who are on the floor. I happens much more that some people are admitting on this site.....