Nathan Brown said something in the post match interview about telling the Saints players that there are reasons why they keep getting beaten by Wigan....

The whole set up is wrotten.

McManus reminds me of Maurice's 2nd spell at Wigan in that he was a maverick in his day but once the magics gone it's gone.

After that they've got coach who is very limited. He's had no real success and there are serious question marks about his ability to stop a side from fading away at the mid part of the year. We saw the same with Hudds.

They've got a crop of youngsters who have always failed at the last hurdle when matched against Wigan. Why would that suddenly change?

Where has the heart and grit gone? Who can they turn to when the chips are down and need someone to get stuck in- Wilkin, LMS, Wellens? Far too many fair weather players.

As much as I can't stand either, Long & Cunningham were key to how StH played in the last 10 years or so. They're missing both on the park more than they might want to admit. Add in Graham and (I'd posit) Pryce departing & their current form has been emerging for some time.

Add in Scully, Fozzard & Talau for people who would mix it when it's needed. They just don't have that anymore. Instead they've got guys like Wilkin who would rather cry to the ref. There's zero fear factor.

It's a good point about their youngsters. They can throw guys like Makinson, Swift, Jones, Greenwood, Walker etc at us and they're all good young lads but our lads like Burgess, Williams, Crosby, Sutton, Manfredi etc have been beating them at junior levels for years.

That's a big mental barrier to break down.

Spot on. The more that rely on their youngsters the better it is for us as we know our lads are better.

They need some magic in the transfer market like they used to have. In years gone by they'd be signing guys like Pryce, Fozzard, Scully, Long, Anderson, Talau, Fassavalu & Lyon. Now instead it's us bringing in the guys like Taylor, Smith, Flower and Bateman who are turning out to be quality buys who over perform.

You could have bet your bottom dollar they'd have been Saints guys 5 or 6 years ago.

Some of those lads are just as good as ours, this all boils down to poor coaching!

just loving the melt down on their board today,its very entertaining.

It it was along the lines of "the level of aggression shown by Wigan and Leeds on Saturday night is something you guys can only dream about," then he's more perceptive than I thought.

To be fair to their fans, not as many now think they have the best squad in SL, but I'm really not sure where that delusion came from in the first place - apart from the St Helens School of Self-Kidology.

They have three players I'd be interested in: Lomax, Roby and Walsh. The rest are average to crap.

They don't like it up em. They do not like it up em.