FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Jamie Peacock |
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6329_1327085433.jpg ...Diagnosing SBD (Sporting Bipolar Disorder) since 2003...
Negs bringing down the tone of your forum? Keyboard Bell-endery tiresome? Embarrassed by some of your own fans?
Then you need...
TheButcher
I must be STOPPED!!
Vice Chairman of The Scarlet Turkey Clique
Grand Wizard Shill of Nibiru Prime & Dark Globe Champion
Chairman of 'The Neil Barker School for gifted Clowns'
"A Local Forum. For Local People":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6329.jpg |
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| Quote: Cruncher "Okay, let's do nothing then.
Because that seems to be the alternative solution from quite a few people in the game.
We're so good at finding reasons why new ideas won't work. Pity we can't employ our gray matter to suggest some that will.'"
Hey, if I had the answers I'd be running the RFL now wouldn't I?
The reason it's easy to spot flaws is because generally the ideas are not well thought out and finding reasons why they wont work is easy because the reasons practically slap you in the face. Truth is, there's no easy option. There will always be flaws. What the RFL need to do is pick the one with the least amount.
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41801_1347868969.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_41801.png |
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| Quote: Cruncher "Okay, let's do nothing then.
Because that seems to be the alternative solution from quite a few people in the game.
We're so good at finding reasons why new ideas won't work. Pity we can't employ our gray matter to suggest some that will.'"
And equally it makes no sense to further shoot ourselves in the foot with bad ideas.
There's nothing wrong with discussing the merits and failings of ideas. But let's not disguise this by phrasing things hopefully - creating a 2x10 system is just bringing 6 clubs that may or may not be able to handle full time into that world, dropping 4 clubs down a level, which may be good for cutting their costs, but also will damage that area in terms of academy work, profile and so on. Add in to the mix of the above ten a few further teams who will simply be stuck in limbo, yo-yoing between the two, unable to have any solid ground for long run investment. We do not have the financial clout to make our second tier an adequate safety net, just a risk to those already struggling.
In terms of intensity and so forth, I can't see this move making a jot of difference. It's roughly the same players in the same teams, just with less varied opposition.
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| Quote: TheButcher "Hey, if I had the answers I'd be running the RFL now wouldn't I?
The reason it's easy to spot flaws is because generally the ideas are not well thought out and finding reasons why they wont work is easy because the reasons practically slap you in the face. Truth is, there's no easy option. There will always be flaws. What the RFL need to do is pick the one with the least amount.'"
I'm not sure that what Peacock proposes could be called an easy option.
It would mean a radical restructuring of the game. But that is what we need, or something like it.
One way or another, we need to trim Super League down, to concentrate the talent and increase the competitiveness of every match - because that's another big problem. So many games are dead rubbers (and not just between top and bottom - we already seem to have an elite league within SL, which is no use to us).
I totally agree that raising the cap won't help in isolation, but we could make modifications to it - discounts on home-grown players, discounts on RU converts maybe, central top-up funds on marquee players etc. We could also get our heads together with Australia and NZ and work out a more exciting and attractive international programme. Maybe bump up the World Club Challenge into something meaningful.
I don't think any of these proposals, or others like them, are completely impractical.
While we'll never replicate the lifestyle available in Aus, we can certainly do more to make life in British RL more appealing for top players. But is the matter even being discussed at head office? I've heard nothing to the effect that it is.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: Cruncher "I'm not sure that what Peacock proposes could be called an easy option.
It would mean a radical restructuring of the game. But that is what we need, or something like it.
One way or another, we need to trim Super League down, to concentrate the talent and increase the competitiveness of every match - because that's another big problem. So many games are dead rubbers (and not just between top and bottom - we already seem to have an elite league within SL, which is no use to us).
I totally agree that raising the cap won't help in isolation, but we could make modifications to it - discounts on home-grown players, discounts on RU converts maybe, central top-up funds on marquee players etc. We could also get our heads together with Australia and NZ and work out a more exciting and attractive international programme. Maybe bump up the World Club Challenge into something meaningful.
I don't think any of these proposals, or others like them, are completely impractical.
While we'll never replicate the lifestyle available in Aus, we can certainly do more to make life in British RL more appealing for top players. But is the matter even being discussed at head office? I've heard nothing to the effect that it is.'"
We're already doing that.
The point about dead rubbers, I'm not convinced how bringing in relegation giving less security to the lower teams in the league is going to improve these clubs in the long term.
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "We're already doing that.
The point about dead rubbers, I'm not convinced how bringing in relegation giving less security to the lower teams in the league is going to improve these clubs in the long term.'"
I'm not a big fan of P&R either, but I firmly believe that we need to slim SL down to some extent.
It that means dropping a couple of perennial underachievers into a lower division, so be it.
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6329_1327085433.jpg ...Diagnosing SBD (Sporting Bipolar Disorder) since 2003...
Negs bringing down the tone of your forum? Keyboard Bell-endery tiresome? Embarrassed by some of your own fans?
Then you need...
TheButcher
I must be STOPPED!!
Vice Chairman of The Scarlet Turkey Clique
Grand Wizard Shill of Nibiru Prime & Dark Globe Champion
Chairman of 'The Neil Barker School for gifted Clowns'
"A Local Forum. For Local People":d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6329.jpg |
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| Quote: Cruncher "I'm not a big fan of P&R either, but I firmly believe that we need to slim SL down to some extent.
It that means dropping a couple of perennial underachievers into a lower division, so be it.'"
That's all very well but how do you decide on who? Would they be willing to drop down? How do you do it fairly? What about finances and sponsorship? Clubs dropping down are libel to lose income from sponsors who want the top league. Making an elite competition even harder to get into by solely grouping the top current teams together does nothing to improve the British game in the long run. It's great for six or so Clubs and that's it. The same as it is now.
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18600.gif :18600.gif |
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| Quote: Grimmy "No need to reduce the number of games, just have everyone playing each other three times and you get the same number of games as now. They'll be better games too with higher average attendances which means more revenue for the clubs.'"
Why will they be better games, because other clubs have more money to spend, I don't think so.
Or it may turn into 'oh it's HKR for the third time, no point going to this one and we always put 60 on them' (no disrespect to HKR and not saying that we do/will).
I firmly believe the problem is down to exposure and promoting the games to a wider audience, do we really want the M62 corridor to be the only place you find professional rugby league. Should we not be aspiring to having a professional club in all major cities, some people barely know the game exists let alone there are professional clubs playing it.
The more people we get watching games live or on tv the more of an attractive proposition we are to sponsors. Big sponsors are looking for big exposure and by reducing the market to a more selective area the more select the sponsor becomes, let's be ambitous and try to expand rather than contract.
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| Quote: TheButcher "That's all very well but how do you decide on who? Would they be willing to drop down? How do you do it fairly? What about finances and sponsorship? Clubs dropping down are libel to lose income from sponsors who want the top league. Making an elite competition even harder to get into by solely grouping the top current teams together does nothing to improve the British game in the long run. It's great for six or so Clubs and that's it. The same as it is now.'"
I'd imagine that we'd sort out the elite 10-team league on much the same basis that we sort out the SL now, the only difference being we get tough with those clubs whose ambitions are plainly divorced from reality.
And no, it won't be fair, but if the outcome is Rugby League in Britain surviving as a professional sport, then I'm all for it.
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65656_1708941604.jpg [size=95:2obtgspq]23 LEAGUE TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]21 CHALLENGE CUPS[/size:2obtgspq]
[size=95:2obtgspq]5 WORLD TITLES[/size:2obtgspq]
[b:2obtgspq][color=#FF0000:2obtgspq][size=100:2obtgspq]SAYS IT ALL REALLY[/size:2obtgspq][/color:2obtgspq][/b:2obtgspq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_65656.jpg |
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| Quote: Warrior Winger "
I firmly believe the problem is down to exposure and promoting the games to a wider audience, do we really want the M62 corridor to be the only place you find professional rugby league. Should we not be aspiring to having a professional club in all major cities, some people barely know the game exists let alone there are professional clubs playing it.'"
Your living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that expansion sides are the way forward. Why try to flog what is essentially a proven recipe for disaster and ridicule? Do people not realise that every expansion team apart from Catalan have failed? We've been to the rugby mad area of South Wales, we've been to two of Europe's grandest cities in London and Paris and seen nothing of worth. We've been to Cumbria and seen nothing but a few ok seasons for Barrow in the championship. Do i need to go on?
There's a viable future for RL and it's in the hearts and minds of the heartland clubs. It's in the heads of guys like Lenegan, Simon Moran, Eamonn Mcmanus, Adam Pearson, Dr Kukash etc that will drive the game forward. People with passion for the game that want to see it progress and give the fans that love the game what they want.
I think people are sick to death of the way RL is going down the pan. Fans who've followed the game for years are turning down season ticket renewals and instead cherry picking games. There's a gulf in performance and match quality from week to week and people are voting with their feet.
These 'fair weather fans' are the people that we need to get back into the game on a more consistent basis. It's not rocket science that people are more willing to part with hard earned cash if they enjoy what they see, get value for money and have a sniff at success. The quickest way to achieve this is by reducing the teams to 10 and concentrating what is an already diluted player base between a smaller number of sides. If you then up the salary cap we'd stand more of a chance of keeping players.
You talk about having less games in a season means less revenue for the club. I flat out disagree with that. If every game was going to be an epic and close affair which was played to a high standard then we'd see our attendances swell. Take our home game vs Wire for example that should be the norm and not the anomaly when it comes to game standard in this country. Your telling me that more people wouldn't tune in and turn up if every game was played like that. There's zero reason why it can't be - Why can't Hull FC, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford, Warrington, Salford, Saints, Catalan & Huddersfield all be power house clubs? All have the backing to be massive but all are held back by what is in reality Wakefield, Hull KR, Cas & London.
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| Ian Lenegan said at a meeting or forum that he votes for an increase in the S Cap by the rate of inflation.
I do think we have to look at our own club infrastructures and bring in some method of compulsion to it. As has been said we need better scouting, recruitment, training and retention of players.
The overall effect would be to increase the number of "club trained" players in the squad. At present the rules state a club must have eight in the squad 25.
I would improve this to have eight in the match day 17.
Take some time to do it so I'd go for a date of the 2nd next licencing round in 2018. That would give clubs who would see this as a massive problem time to get their structure sorted.
This would mean that a club could plan its future so that all positions on the field are covered by quality players coming through the club's system.
There will always be players who want out of their "Club" as equally a club will look to bring in players to cover positions where they are lacking cover.
We have to sort out our own future and that IMO depends on increasing the number and quality of youngsters coming into the game and staying in British Rugby League for their whole career.
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: Warrior Winger "Why will they be better games, because other clubs have more money to spend, I don't think so.'"
I mean the average game will be better, because there won't be as many walkovers. Let's say Castleford, Hull KR, London and Widnes go down for example. Instead of:
Castleford (H)
Hull KR (A)
London (H)
Widnes (A)
Castleford (A)
Hull KR (H)
London (A)
Widnes (H)
You would get:
Leeds (H)
Salford (A)
Wakefield (H)
Warrington (A)
Huddersfield (H)
Bradford (A)
Les Catalans (H)
Hull FC (A)
Obviously the second set of fixtures are better games. Even if the cap increase doesn't improve the quality of the teams
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cartoons/WB181.gif :cartoons/WB181.gif |
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| Regarding income SL1 would get the same from sky leaving about £600k for SL2, 27 fixtures and top 5 play off with Sl1 entering CC at last 16. Restrict imports to 2/1 and increase the player pool by creating a logical FT arena for young players
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16304_1526976105.jpg [size=100:2md8k3b3][b:2md8k3b3]'Do you remember when we had that meeting in Orlando? We talked about how we were knocked out the previous year by Leeds. And at the end, I asked you one question. "Do you want to be a semi-final team? Or do you want to do something special?" You all said you wanted to win. But talking is easy – it needed you to believe. It needed you to work hard – harder than you had – and make sacrifices. You did all that. you worked for each other. You stuck together when it was tough. And because of your efforts, you sit here tonight as champions. I'm proud of you. Be proud of yourselves. You've done something special.'
[color=red:2md8k3b3]
Shaun Wane's post-Grand Final speech. 5th October 2013.[/color:2md8k3b3][/b:2md8k3b3][/size:2md8k3b3]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16304.jpg |
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| A couple of weeks old and maybe a bit O/T, but interesting comments from Lee Radford regarding the plight of younger players nowadayshttps://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Rugby-stifles-young-stars-like-Hull-FC-s-Jamie/story-18606565-detail/story.html#axzz2QtO4GdMLrl
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| If any one listened to Dr Koukash on BBC Radio Manchester, he spoke about certain big teams using "mechanisms" to spend above the cap, they didn't go into details and Jack Dearden posed the question, "are they cheating?". I'm just curious if any one knows what these mechanisms are?
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| Quote: ksm1701 "A couple of weeks old and maybe a bit O/T, but interesting comments from Lee Radford regarding the plight of younger players nowadayshttps://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Rugby-stifles-young-stars-like-Hull-FC-s-Jamie/story-18606565-detail/story.html#axzz2QtO4GdMLrl'"
That is one of the reasons why I despair - it is such a stupid system that harms young/injury recovering players only RL it seems would introduce something so limiting.Everyone could see what would happen when it was first discussed - and club chairmen agreed to it, that is the amazing, crazy thing about it!
It is not just the buffons at Red Hall but club chairmen as well who agree to these things. Sadly there seems to be a complete lack of long term vision - everything seems to be short term fiddles and fudges, probably a case of too many vested interests.
It seems the one group of people who do have some genuine ideas and suggestions and who care about the game more than anyone are the ones who are not heard - the fans.
Worrying times ahead.
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