FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > England Half Backs |
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| Quote: Father Ted "Widdop was poor in the WCC but by all accounts he's playing exceptionally well in the NRL.'"
I disagree. Widdop is a very average player playing in an outstanding team, put him in Super League and he wouldnt get a mention for England. Smith, Cronk and Slater call all the shots and Widdop certainly is not the creator and organiser at Stand Off that he would have to be in an England team. There are numerous players in Super League that would do as good a job, if not better, than Widdop playing in that Melbourne team.
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| Quote: Famous "I disagree. Widdop is a very average player playing in an outstanding team, put him in Super League and he wouldnt get a mention for England. Smith, Cronk and Slater call all the shots and Widdop certainly is not the creator and organiser at Stand Off that he would have to be in an England team. There are numerous players in Super League that would do as good a job, if not better, than Widdop playing in that Melbourne team.'"
That's always been my take TBH and I've not seen a great deal to change my mind.
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Games/PDT_419.gif [color=#FF4040:2teu7uxz]CHERRY AND WHITE[/color:2teu7uxz]
[color=#000000:2teu7uxz]IT'S IN OUR BLOOD[/color:2teu7uxz]
[color=#FF4040:2teu7uxz]ANCIENT & LOYAL[/color:2teu7uxz]
[color=#000000:2teu7uxz]UNTIL WE DIE[/color:2teu7uxz]
WIGAN WARRIORS CHALLENGE CUP CHAMPIONS 2011:Games/PDT_419.gif |
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| Matty Smith is a man to watch this year, he's really the only out & out 7 we have knocking around at the moment worth taking a punt on.
Myler is not international standard IMHO.
I'd even be tempted to play Burrow at 7, with either Sinfield or Tomkins at 6. If you do play Tomkins at 6 it frees up the option to play Hardaker at 1.
What is good is the quality of young backs we have got compared to 6 years ago.
At the moment, you'd have to put forward Callum Watkins for one spot.
Briscoe, Hall & Charnley could fight it out but the main question is, with McNamara, Sinfield will be in the backs to play O'Loughlin at 13, leaving 1 spot for the 7 shirt.
Who is the best 7 in the league at the moment...?
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| Quote: p1e e8ter "
Who is the best 7 in the league at the moment...?'"
Wilkin/Wellens?
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fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif :fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
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| Widdopp is playing very well for the Storm, but he's not running the show, which is what England would need him to do at 6. He also rarely makes any kicks (not surprising with Cronk and Smith in the team). No idea how anyone could suggest he'd definitely be better at fullback - he only plays there when Slater is out. If Tomkins moved to 7 and others were out of form I'd consider it - perhaps ahead of Hardaker who for me still doesn't look to pass enough.
BTW I've been a big critic of Jack Reed but he's started to get some form back. He's painfully slow, but causes defences problems because he always looks to pass to his winger, meaning that he has options every time he gets the ball. Supposed 'centres' who never pass (or only look to pass once they've been tackled) are a pet hate of mine. Why coaches can't see that the likes of Jamie Lyon (or an in-form Reed) can be dangerous without being monsters is beyond me.
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42169_1366443727.jpg Chorlton RL wrote- "Jonny, for me you hold the mantle of most sensible poster on the VT"
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Yed wrote: "He's like a Kevin Penny on steroids except he's good too"
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"What? What have I said now?" - Starbug 2013
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| Sorry, but unless Tomkins starts playing at HB you can't expect England to pick him there.
1. Tomkins
6. Sinfield
7. Widdop
9. Roby
13. O'Loughlin
That's a cracking spine.
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| Im not a huge fan of Sinfield and much of the OTT hype by the sky baffoons just adds to my discontent. However, no one can doubt his leadership qualities, his organisational skills and obviously his kicking game all of which will be crucial against NZ/Aus. However I feel he lacks creativity, speed and a decisive edge to his game at that level. But I also dont feel with have a 6 who can offer what Sinfield does with the extra spark required. We just dont have a British 'complete 6' so Sinfield probably is the best option.
For the spine of the team id go
1-Sam
6-Sinfield
7-Myler
9-Mcilorum
13- Lockers
I chose Mcilorum to start purely for his no nonsense aggressive approach to really get into their ribs with Roby to add pace with his scoots off the bench.
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| Kevin Sinfield has been atrocious this year, his passing game was at times embarrassing vs Warrington. If Smith could kick conversions he would be a shoe in.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| You need structure at the top level. Off the cuff RL is great when it comes off and sometimes its what's need but, if it goes wrong it causes players to panic and you end up with someone like Westwood kicking the ball anywhere in desperation. The key though is the forwards. Over the last few years we've bought into the myth that we can match Aus up front but in reality as a unit we haven't. What our forwards do without the ball in terms of running lines, and technique in contact is just as important as the amount of meters and carries they make. Aus have been far better in this area and as a result gain better field position so are able to execute a better kick and build more pressure. As DHM said earlier it doesn't matter who you have kicking the ball if they're 30m from their own line with 2 or 3 defenders pressuring the kick chances are it won't be a good kick.
For me I think it's important to have atleast 2 or 3 players on the field who can kick the ball. If we go with just Sinfield chances are he'll just be marked out of the game. That's why I'd go with Sinfield at 6 and Brough at 7. 2 halves who can organise, pass and kick. It also gives you a left foot and right foot combination. Brough also has that bit of extra pace. Then I'd have Tomkins at full back, and Roby at hooker. That gives us 3 kicking options plus Roby can kick out of DH.
My team would be:
Tomkins
Briscoe/Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Sinfield
Brough
Graham
Roby
Hill
Ellis
O'Flanders
Burgess
Burrow
Crabtree
G Burgess
Hock
That's probably the the most physically gifted back line we've had for sometime, and we have some very big, mobile ball playing forwards I just hope we can get them all fit and in form for the world cup.
More worrying for me at the moment is the form of Westwood, Hill, and Roby.
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69495_1358514082.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69495.jpg |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "You need structure at the top level. Off the cuff RL is great when it comes off and sometimes its what's need but, if it goes wrong it causes players to panic and you end up with someone like Westwood kicking the ball anywhere in desperation. The key though is the forwards. Over the last few years we've bought into the myth that we can match Aus up front but in reality as a unit we haven't. What our forwards do without the ball in terms of running lines, and technique in contact is just as important as the amount of meters and carries they make. Aus have been far better in this area and as a result gain better field position so are able to execute a better kick and build more pressure. As DHM said earlier it doesn't matter who you have kicking the ball if they're 30m from their own line with 2 or 3 defenders pressuring the kick chances are it won't be a good kick.
For me I think it's important to have atleast 2 or 3 players on the field who can kick the ball. If we go with just Sinfield chances are he'll just be marked out of the game. That's why I'd go with Sinfield at 6 and Brough at 7. 2 halves who can organise, pass and kick. It also gives you a left foot and right foot combination. Brough also has that bit of extra pace. Then I'd have Tomkins at full back, and Roby at hooker. That gives us 3 kicking options plus Roby can kick out of DH.
My team would be
Roby's form was excellent until he was injured. St Helens being a bit cack doesn't change that.
No Mossop or Faz, Charnley is a doubt... "Sinfield will be marked out of the game" oh right- you're from Leeds.
I started to reply before I realised, I wouldn't have bothered.
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18919_1341147656.jpg [quote="King Monkey":30st820n]Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.
At least he'd lose his virginity.[/quote:30st820n]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_18919.jpg |
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| Quote: sybutwhy? "Roby's form was excellent until he was injured. St Helens being a bit cack doesn't change that.
No Mossop or Faz, Charnley is a doubt... "Sinfield will be marked out of the game" oh right- you're from Leeds.
I started to reply before I realised, I wouldn't have bothered.'"
What?
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69495_1358514082.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_69495.jpg |
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| Quote: Charlie Sheen "What?
Mark Sinfield? Because he may kick on the 5th tackle? He's barely been able to catch a ball this season. Even by his low standards his all-round game has been awful, all we can hope is that the three conversions he missed are an omen for the future and his spot (now cemented as field goal kicker) is made available.
I can't hold Sir Kev against you as the bandwagon is vast and somehow rolls on (pushed by Stevo and Eddie), but to not include Farrell is proposterous. Physically he is the best England have (fitness may play actually a part vs the Aussies...), he's the top performing player in Super League and, well, there isn't an "and"- just look at the stats.
Mossop, if fit, is involved.
Hill shouldn't feature on current form. With his age you'd expect him to find it, hopefully Westwood will too.
On a lighter note I'd also put Brough in.
Can't stand ya...
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fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif :fonds noir/Buzz Lightyear.gif |
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| I'm not sure how it would work, but I'd want Sinfield controlling the plays within england's half, and the last tackle options in the opposition 20, but not being the main playmaker close to the line (at least not for entire sets). Sadly it really is as if we need an extra player out there simply to keep our shape.
Somebody made the point about our forwards being horrible off the ball, and that's a major weakness for us. I remember Peacock blasting the backs - who were dire to be fair - the last time GB played in Brisbane, and yet Morley was literally the only forward who matched it with Australia that night. Making nice yardage and completing tackles may make for nice reading in the stats, but doesn't show how the pack made no space for the backs with off-the-balll running, had painfully slow PTBs relative to Australia, or failed entirely to get anywhere near Australia's backs to help in defence.
In the end all I really want is a competitive england - one that I can be proud of instead of embarrassed. I'd be quite happy with zero Leeds players in the side if that happened.
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| Widdop plays a very secondary role in the halves at Storm, if he were to start at 6 England need a true leader and playmaker at 7, similar to how Cronk controls things at Storm. With the right partner, it could work.
Sinfield, tricky one. During the game he doesn't seen fast enough or influential enough to warrant a place in the side let alone be named the best in the world. However, I've never played alongside him, he's on-field coaching and organisation could well be first class, what he brings to the team could be far more important that what would meet the eye.
Chase, arguably the most creative and gifted of all available, but can he be the on-field leader England needs? Debatable.
Move Tomkins to 6? No point, if you're gonna split the halves he should be at fb where he can link in the line as he does for Wigan.
Myler? Playing well, but IMO not good enough, would be a massive target in defence.
Lomax? Seems to be a better fb.
Brough, a talented player, kicks well, dictates play, a possibility.
However this is what I'd go for...
Tomkins
Hall Reed Abblet Briscoe
Widdop Matty Smith
Crabtree McM Morley
S Burgess Westwood
Lockers
----------------------
Graham Roby George Burgess Hock
Reserve team
Hardaker
Charnley Goulding Atkins Watkins
Chase Sinfeld
Hill Lunt Mossop
Faz Ellis
JJB
------------------------
Clark L Burgess Wilkin Carvell
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| If you don't think Myler is good enough, then I don't see how you think Matty Smith is?
Sinfield has to play, the decision will be who will play alongside him.
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