Notes on all of the above...
Leeds did not have the best squad in Super League. Ben Thaler handed them a win Catalans away, Wigan had stopped playing two months earlier and would have won comfortably with the man of steel. The Warrington final was the only convincing performance.
Everybody is skint. Everyone has always been. I can't see what is different now? If anything early season games should be better attended as no one will have paid for a ticket in months?
If people are waiting for the playoffs why do we have poor crowds at playoff games?

In my opinion, which everything I post is- I ain't controlled by the man, ending the season as we did will cause people to stay away. We ended the season with top players either absent or under performing. We've since lost 5 top players and signed "promising" replacements or promoted younger players.

If you were a casual RL observer there is nothing in that to get your bum on one of those seats and you probably expect a hiding on Friday. Only by Green/Smith performances becoming the talk of the town, by Liam Farrell being talked up as the best forward in the league and Scott Taylor knocking someone out cold do you counteract the negativity. You don't do it in an un-televised game against Salford.

They could win 50-0 or lose 50-0 and it won't matter a jot to who wins the major trophies. That is my opinion on why it will be a poor crowd

If they did I don't think they intended to. I really do not think they set out to play the system and have two poor league seasons with the idea that was going to help them win a GF.

If what they did [ihas[/i changed the fans views it is not their fault but the systems fault making it too easy to win it from 5th.

I regard the regular rounds in much the same way I do non-title bouts in boxing. Ok, no prizes are handed out but they're just as capable of providing decent contests, demonstrations of skill and commitment, sometimes far more so than the more meaningful occasions. Depends what you're after, I guess.

Revert the playoffs to five teams by all means. We'll never know but I reckon Leeds would have won the last two years under that system too, given that they travelled to the league's top team in each season and came out on top.

Would Leeds have won it if it was a top 4 system? Would they have tried harder to make top 4? If so are we not being served an inferior product because top 8 is too easy? Therefore fans are not bothering with reg season games?

People only ever give opinions on here, but we don't all share the same opinion which is why there will be disagreements. I doubt it will ever proven whether your position or mine is the correct one - and hopefully the eight-team play off will be done away with before this foolishness gathers any more pace. But if it's 20-21 on Friday night, with five minutes to go, I wonder how many will think the result doesn't matter then.

The teams are not preparing for this match as if it's a jazzed-up friendly. Only fans - SOME of them - appear to have adopted this attitude.

I've still seen no explanation from you as to why many play-off games and even early rounds of the Challenge Cup are very poorly attended. By your definition, those fixtures should all be sell-outs.

Maybe, but under a top 5 system it would be much more difficult, having to work harder to ensure a top 5 place initially, last season they would then have to play Catalans, Saints and Wigan / Wire all away to reach the final, whereas they had the relatively easy 1st round against Wakey at home (HKR home the previous season). In fact when they won it in 2011 they did so without beating the second-placed reigning champions all season.

There is much more to a top five system than that compared to the top 8. In the former you [inever[/i get the luxury of a home tie and certainly not against the 8th placed side. The top 8 also means some fixtures are impossible so they managed to avoid playing a side who finished above them. Top 5 is a much harder competition for 5th compared to top 8 and not just because it makes it hard for 5th but because it's easier for the top side who, amongst other advantages, do not have to play harder fixture in week one (v 4th) than the team placed 5th who get 8th. Whoever dreamt up the top 8 format we have is an idiot.

Its not got nothing at all to do with playoffs, however, like I said earlier I would be there if I had enough money to pay for my brother too.

I do think the playoffs effect it but I think more of it is the price. For example: My brother is a student when I was a student 2 years ago my tickets were about £10 maybe even less. The ticket now is £15. Adult ticket even more. If I bought mine and his I would be spending the amount I could've paid for 2 adult tickets 2-3 years ago.

I understand how an economy works and I know why the prices have to go up but its hurting people because my wage hasnt gone up by 50% since then so I cant afford the un-necessary expenses.

I still love RL and I will stand by it even when its being run by these morons but I just cant afford to support it financially at the moment.

I imagine this is the same for a lot of people and thats the problem with it.



We are WIGAN not a little minnow of a team with disloyal fickle fans we have a great following but that following simply cant al afford it now. Its a shame but its the state of affairs at the moment. The problem is the club cant afford to take the risk of reducing the season ticket to spread further and get more in for less per ticket in case they get the same number still.

They should take a look at how a few soccer clubs are run. I support Crewe and a few years back (may still do it now) you could pay £10-£15 a season for a membership and then a ticket went from somewhere around £25 to around £18. So after 3-4 games you were laughing. It was a bit like a season ticket for people who could only make a few games a year.

If Wigan did that I would buy it and go to 4 or 5 games a year and so would my brother I think.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating top 8 play offs. I preferred the five team format by far and I wouldn't be averse to a four, or even three team version. And I'm in agreement with those who regard the league leaders trophy as undervalued. The winner of that should go into an expanded WCC along with the GF winners in my view. I don't think we can scrap the playoffs & GF altogether, from an economic standpoint if nothing else.

My belief is that Leeds would not have been champions had a four team format been in operation. I think we'd still have finished fifth and failed to make the playoffs. But like I said, I reckon had we finished fifth in a five team version we'd still have won, notwithstanding DaveO's valid observation that it might well have been a bigger ask. None of us will know that for sure though.

I can't really answer the question of whether the product is inferior. My own view is that technique is replacing grunt so that sometimes the intensity isn't what it used to be but I actually think the teams try just as hard to win. Just my opinion though, I'm sure plenty will disagree.

Last night I watched Wigan v Warrington from last year. How anyone can say that was meaningless, a friendly, a warm up whatever is completely beyond me.

The regular season is a massive part of the social calendar for many, and its a fabulous sport to watch without question and thats why its generally attended well. Having said that the recent goings on re Leeds winning from 5th has made the sport look plain silly and made a lot of people (inc leeds fans btw) decide to pick and choose games rather than get a season ticket (like 3 of us have done). Like someone mentioned, if we win or lose 50-0 it inevitably says nothing about whether were gonna win anything. In any other sport that has a league table it would be a disaster.

The playoffs is poorly attended due to the fact it involves paying over £20 pp to watch a game where if you lose you still have a chance of becoming champions (absolutely ludicrous) bearing in mind every clubs fans shelled out at the start of the season for season tickets thus not fancying shelling out any more dosh due to the fact we might be going to Old Trafford for a big (expensive) day out, and the vast majority of playoff games are on telly anyway.

if i didn't love my team and enjoy the amazing sport that it is, it would be even more of a laughing stock.

Top 2 in the league go straight to Old Trafford for me for whats called the premiership final

Or skint. I'm now entering my 6th year without a pay rise having taken a cut in both 2008 & 2009, reinstated in 2010. My wife's income will probably be a NETT £12K down this year. I'm sure I'm not the only one suffering but there could be plenty who can offer their financial plight as a convincing excuse for their non attendance.

Just bought 6 with my scrum voucher in addition to our two season tickets. Perhaps people are just buying on the day rather than going to the ticket office while the weathers so bad. I do think our slim chances of victory will have put off a few 'fans' though

I never meant to imply that financial problems are not a good reason to miss fixtures. There are things more important than sport. In another post, I mentioned that I though the recession was a big reason for ticket sale slowdown. For what it's worth, you have my full sympathy.

What I don't buy is this notion that people are staying away because they are only interested in the play-offs - when all the evidence suggests that the play-offs have equally poor, if not much worse, attendances - a point that none of those advocating this explanation seem willing or able to respond to.