FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
  
FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Ellery hanley has his say
59 posts in 5 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps
RankPostsTeam
International Star862No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2021Dec 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: sergeant pepper "Its a simple equation of

Poor on field product

[iPoor on field product

And that explains why RU is so well viewed? The club rugby is very poorly viewed and the quality is whatever the opposite of elite is. How players like Farrel go from barely able to make the team to international is beyond me as an example.

[iA league where ever game is of the highest quality and you've got 5 top games played over a weekend and fans are spoilt for choice.
[/i

Just like the football? They have a number of good games (or so I hear, I don't like watching) but they have a bigger league where the decent clash happens more frequently because of the size of the league. Imagine the premiership with 10 teams.

[iThat's how you market British RL as having the most competative league in the world. If it raises the level of the championship then even better for us.
[/i

I don't! We don't have the most competitive league in the world, and if we did who actually cares in the world? Are the Aussies tuning in en mass? How about the Germans?


[iI'd also go one step further with SL clubs linking up with league two sides and having A teams in that league mixed in with some others.
[/i

So you would reduce the size of SL and make L2 feeder clubs? So that's 1xSL and 1xL2 squads rather than 2xSL and 2xL2? Reducing the oppertunity to shine isn't the way to encourage improvement.

RankPostsTeam
International Star862No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2021Dec 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Famous "This is something that I have always argued. Unlike yourself I actually like the salary cap and think that it is a good idea that just needs tweaking a little. However one must is that it should be linked to inflation so it doesnt decrease in real terms. If this was the case and we had a salary cap of £2.3 million we would have certainly kept a lot more players in the game and could compete with RU much better. It is a joke that some players from the 90s got paid more than players today when TV deals, sponsorship deals, crowds, ticket prices etc have all gone up considerably. Where has all the money gone? It doesnt make sense or add up to me.'"


The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency.

I'm not sure that the RU competition actually matters on the whole, look at the players that have been lost. Has RL lost a player that has the media's eye gone? Not in my opinion, because RL hasn't had the media focus nationally to start with. How much of a loss to RL was Andy Farrel/Paul Sculthorpe (not RU) at the time? Is anything Scully was worse due to his Gillette sponsorship loss.

Raising the cap may make more Aussies arrive, but the UK a players have to compete against them to play. Does this make the league improve or get worse?

RankPostsTeam
International Star3922
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201213 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
65656_1708941604.jpg
[size=95:2obtgspq]23 LEAGUE TITLES[/size:2obtgspq] [size=95:2obtgspq]21 CHALLENGE CUPS[/size:2obtgspq] [size=95:2obtgspq]5 WORLD TITLES[/size:2obtgspq] [b:2obtgspq][color=#FF0000:2obtgspq][size=100:2obtgspq]SAYS IT ALL REALLY[/size:2obtgspq][/color:2obtgspq][/b:2obtgspq]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_65656.jpg



Quote: goobervision "[iPoor on field product

And that explains why RU is so well viewed? The club rugby is very poorly viewed and the quality is whatever the opposite of elite is. How players like Farrel go from barely able to make the team to international is beyond me as an example.

[iA league where ever game is of the highest quality and you've got 5 top games played over a weekend and fans are spoilt for choice.
[/i

Just like the football? They have a number of good games (or so I hear, I don't like watching) but they have a bigger league where the decent clash happens more frequently because of the size of the league. Imagine the premiership with 10 teams.

[iThat's how you market British RL as having the most competative league in the world. If it raises the level of the championship then even better for us.
[/i

I don't! We don't have the most competitive league in the world, and if we did who actually cares in the world? Are the Aussies tuning in en mass? How about the Germans?


[iI'd also go one step further with SL clubs linking up with league two sides and having A teams in that league mixed in with some others.
[/i

So you would reduce the size of SL and make L2 feeder clubs? So that's 1xSL and 1xL2 squads rather than 2xSL and 2xL2? Reducing the oppertunity to shine isn't the way to encourage improvement.'"


No but having the current concept is working right?

You talk about RU because YOU think its boring. I personally like the game and love the six nations/world cup tournaments as its competative and will hold your interest.

British RL is in a desperate state due to a lack of high level RL being played every week like it is in the NRL.

I don't believe that the crops of quality youngsters we produce season after season who beat their Aussie counterparts at youth level suddenly turn poor before they hit their peak.

What happens is their development is hindered as they stop being tested to the level NRL players do each week.

I'd love a comp as big and as good as the NRL but sadly we don't have the playing pool to achieve it. Instead of reducing the teams, cutting away the also rans and raising the weekly intensity level we instead dilute the comp with championship level players who we pretend are a lot better than they are.

It baffles me how blind some people are. We can watch standards slip further away season after season but yet some RL fans have their head in the sand.

RankPostsTeam
International Star1871No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
May 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Mar 2017Mar 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
51474_1275316988.gif
:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_51474.gif



Quote: goobervision "The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency.

I'm not sure that the RU competition actually matters on the whole, look at the players that have been lost. Has RL lost a player that has the media's eye gone? Not in my opinion, because RL hasn't had the media focus nationally to start with. How much of a loss to RL was Andy Farrel/Paul Sculthorpe (not RU) at the time? Is anything Scully was worse due to his Gillette sponsorship loss.

Raising the cap may make more Aussies arrive, but the UK a players have to compete against them to play. Does this make the league improve or get worse?'"


Linking the cap to inflation and letting it rise with that isnt raising the cap though in real terms. The cap may be the same as 10 years ago but players today are being paid far less.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach689
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201015 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Apr 2019Apr 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

[quote="FlexWheeler":8f22o6ue]The extent of his coaching is ''BASH EM, JUST F*CKING BASH EM. HE'S LOW ON CONFIDENCE, BASH HIM'' He's a limited coach that won't last long term.[/quote:8f22o6ue] .... [quote="rubber duckie":8f22o6ue]That would make Wigan strong favourites then. With Ratchford at FB and Patton with Cronk in the halves, I think we'll do very well without Sam.[/quote:8f22o6ue]:



Quote: Famous "Linking the cap to inflation and letting it rise with that isnt raising the cap though in real terms. The cap may be the same as 10 years ago but players today are being paid far less.'"


a point that most fans fail to understand.

players are getting poorer in real terms, why would they chose to stay in the competition.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner3525No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2018Sep 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
7007.jpg
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: goobervision "The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency.'"


You can't believe this, surely.

How many small clubs have won the SL in the SC era?

How many clubs have gone bust or had serious financial difficulties in the SC era?

Are you actually a member of the board of directors of the RFL? icon_confused.gif

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner3525No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2018Sep 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
7007.jpg
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: Famous "This is something that I have always argued. Unlike yourself I actually like the salary cap and think that it is a good idea that just needs tweaking a little. However one must is that it should be linked to inflation so it doesnt decrease in real terms. If this was the case and we had a salary cap of £2.3 million we would have certainly kept a lot more players in the game and could compete with RU much better. It is a joke that some players from the 90s got paid more than players today when TV deals, sponsorship deals, crowds, ticket prices etc have all gone up considerably. Where has all the money gone? It doesnt make sense or add up to me.'"


I don't like the SC in it's current form, but it is only a symptom of a wider disease. Even if the SC were reformed in the way it should be - to encourage growth, ensure financial stability of clubs with additional financial controls and monitoring and reward clubs for developing players - the SL would still always be weak financially because of the people and culture at the RFL and clubs (and in the wider RL world - as shown by a poster on this thread claiming the SC has done a good job to protect clubs from insolvency!!)

Some of the cash has gone into new stadiums (Wigan's deal diverts a lot of revenue - more than IL has yet admitted publicly - to the stadium company), but it is a bit of a mystery as to where the money has gone, until you realise that clubs have just got used to the status quo under the SC and waste money because they can't spend it on players...

RankPostsTeam
International Star862No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2021Dec 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Deano G "You can't believe this, surely.

How many small clubs have won the SL in the SC era?

How many clubs have gone bust or had serious financial difficulties in the SC era?

Are you actually a member of the board of directors of the RFL?
So you are of the opinion that the Salary Cap doesn't restrict the larger clubs and that teams like Wigan haven't lost players as a result of the cap?

I don't know how many have had financial difficulties? Are you trying to say that no cap would prevent this? I can't see how a reduced number of teams would fix this, as less games = less cash while fixed costs remain the same (ground maintenance / wages).

Where would the additional fans in a reduced league come from? Lets take Widnes and London out, where do their players go? Where to the bigger clubs players get SL experience? Would Wigan be developing a full back right now, and if so how often would they get a game?

RankPostsTeam
International Star862No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2021Dec 2021LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



Quote: Deano G "- as shown by a poster on this thread claiming the SC has done a good job to protect clubs from insolvency!!)'"


I wrote " The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency."

I neither stated that the SC prevented insolvency, nor that they did a good job. I do think that the maximum spending limits which took into account the clubs revenues were a good way, I think that this route with more financial governance would help but I don't think the RFL executed this well.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner3525No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2018Sep 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
7007.jpg
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: goobervision "I wrote " The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency."

I neither stated that the SC prevented insolvency, nor that they did a good job. I do think that the maximum spending limits which took into account the clubs revenues were a good way, I think that this route with more financial governance would help but I don't think the RFL executed this well.'"


"The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency". icon_rolleyes.gif

Clubs that have got into serious financial difficulties in the SC era include: London, Bradford, Widnes, Halifax, Crusaders, Wakefield, Salford, Gateshead, Sheffield. There may well be others, but that'll do for starters!

As for the mythical level playing field - it remains mythical. The league title is held by the club with the highest revenue in the competition and the SL this year is likely to be won either by the club with the biggest fan base or the club with the richest owner. I ask again - how many clubs have won the title since the SC came in?

Where did I advocate reducing the number of clubs in the league? Actually I think the issue is not so much the number of clubs but whether we have the right clubs making the right contribution. So, for example, if I were in charge of the SL one of my top priorities would be to get a sustainable Toulouse side into SL.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach41No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2013Jun 2012LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



simple.... have a 2 tier sl with 10 teams in each tier and have promotion and relegation. could have for example...

tier 1
wigan
leeds
saints
wire
catalan
hull
hull kr
brad
hudders
london

tier 2

salford
wakey
cas
featherstone
leigh
barrow
halifax
batley
widnes
sheffield

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1529No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200618 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2024Jan 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
27588.gif
"Games as big as a grand finals define individuals and clubs. Remember we are only renting these shirts, I had my time in Pat Richards shirt. Ellery and Faz had there time in Sean's, Hampo and Radders in Sam's. You have to make a mark in these shirts that's still there the day you hand it over to someone else. So be aware for 80 minutes you are not only playing but also writing history and creating a legacy. How many people get to actually write history, not many. A big stage demands big players, be inspired. You play for Wigan, now go do it. Good luck." - Martin Offiah, 2010.:27588.gif



He said the same on the NRL Footy Show last week where he was a special guest

RankPostsTeam
International Star131No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 201114 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2013Jan 2013LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
57878_1302628246.jpg
I Just Can't Get Enough!!! Ellery Hanley For England!:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_57878.jpg



Quote: cherryandwhitedavid06 "He said the same on the NRL Footy Show last week where he was a special guest'"

Is there any way of watching the footy show over here? Can you stream it or get it on Premier Sports? I love that program.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach18737No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Aug 2024May 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
16493_1299497226.jpg
[quote="king warrior":prbr924b]Adam Blair flew over yesterday and has been training the deal is going to be signed this week Got to say this is a top signing[/quote:prbr924b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16493.jpg

Moderator


Quote: Hendy Charming "Is there any way of watching the footy show over here? Can you stream it or get it on Premier Sports? I love that program.'"

There are clips on YouTube.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach17No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 201015 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2012Jun 2012LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature

:



For me we need to seriously reduce the imports in our game in order to improve the quality of our home grown players. Under Nobby at Wigan, Sam Tomkins was in the 20,s and not going any further ( in fact nearly on his way out ) because he thought he was not big enough. Tim Smith got injured and he had to bring him in to the team, the rest they say is h.......

There are too may overseas players + coaches in our game, a lot of young players never get the correct amount of game time in their strongest position because of this, I know results, results, results ! only matter and winning trophies because its a business. The demise started when teams like Wigan, Saints, etc went looking down under in the 80,s and don,t get me wrong I loved watching Kenny, Meninnga, Miles etc, and this trend has continued ever since.

The trade off is, our own lads never get the right chances and hence we never produce the correct amount of talent we should do. There is enough playing talent round the north west alone in RL to produce enough players if they are coached correctly and more importantly given the correct chances. ( over-rated Kiwi stand off playing for England instead of ? )

Its the same in the Premier league, too many foreign players and not enough home grown lads. How many non-Aussies play in the NRL ? not many, how many non Spanish play in their football league, not many.

If they had kept the overseas quota in and reduced it to 2 players years ago, there would be a lot more players like Tomkins knocking about in SL.

Imo this is the only way we can go forward in SL in order to improve our own league + chances of competing against the Aussies. I also think the player pool is not bigger enough yet to support 14 competative teams in SL

59 posts in 5 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps
59 posts in 5 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, DaveO , Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy , Bilko , Pemps



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


13.15380859375:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
just_browny
17
6m
Tonights match v HKR
just_browny
85
6m
Rumours thread
Prince Buste
2448
7m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Emagdnim13
10095
8m
Championship Awards
Trojan Horse
9
9m
Leigh it is
BoredWiganer
78
16m
Decision on the field
hatty
12
19m
Questions for Ste Mills
JamieRobinso
1
40m
Isa 1 year extension
Phuzzy
10
46m
TV Games - Not Hull
Chris71
2906
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
41s
Proposed rule changes 2025
MjM
14
51s
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
1m
Transfer Talk / Rumour thread V4
Emagdnim13
10095
1m
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Vancouver Le
8
2m
2025 TRANSFER AND RETENTION RUMOURS
Listenup94
1
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
62588
2m
Worst semi
Barstool Pre
5
2m
Squad 2025
Nat (Rugby_A
1
3m
Film game
Boss Hog
4064
4m
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fightback To Secure Grand Final Spot
Mild Rover
2
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Questions for Ste Mills
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
Decision on the field
hatty
12
TODAY
Who do you want to win the Grand Final
just_browny
17
TODAY
Worst semi
Barstool Pre
5
TODAY
2025 TRANSFER AND RETENTION RUMOURS
Listenup94
1
TODAY
Sam Burgess
Boss Hog
7
TODAY
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fightback To Secure Grand Final Spot
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Squad 2025
Nat (Rugby_A
1
TODAY
Tonights match v HKR
just_browny
85
TODAY
Isa 1 year extension
Phuzzy
10
TODAY
2024 IMG gradings
northernblok
2
TODAY
Championship Awards
Trojan Horse
9
TODAY
Season tickets
Hudd-Shay
8
TODAY
Best Semi
sir adrian m
13
TODAY
Ben Condon is a Leopard
Jack Gaskell
1
TODAY
Squads - Leopards v Warriors
Vancouver Le
8
TODAY
Any decent RL reads for me hols
norbellini
1
TODAY
Championship Play Off Final
PopTart
3
TODAY
Man of Steel
matt_wire
8
TODAY
Guest appearance
AgbriggAmble
2
TODAY
Squad for HKR
MorePlaymake
28
TODAY
Proposed rule changes 2025
MjM
14
TODAY
Fev H Play Off
Bully_Boxer
21
TODAY
Whose going for a beer in Wigan Saturday
Deeeekos
2
TODAY
Play-off semi-final
BarnsleyGull
19
TODAY
Coach of the Year
Howfenwire
11
TODAY
Greatest game ever at HJ
Fantastic Mr
10
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
209
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
787
Leigh Leopards Make Play Off P..
818
Catalans Dragons Finish Sevent..
1227
Hull KR Secure Second With Vic..
1448
Wigan Seal League Leaders Trop..
1197
Wakefield Trinity Sweep Aside ..
1607
Catalans Keep Season Alive Wit..
1308
Salford Ensure Play-Offs And S..
1536
Ruthless Wigan Thrash the Rhin..
1711
Huddersfield Giants Hold Off L..
2057
Salford Close In On The Play O..
1663
Leigh Leopards Up To Fourth Af..
1701
Leeds Rhinos Into the Six Afte..
2028
Wigan Warriors Defeat Hull KR ..
1724