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FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Time for some humble pie |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "He needs to know if some of these young players are up to it, and the only way to do it is to give them their chance in games like yesterday. '"
No its not. He had absolutely no need to put so many young players in the side at once. The idea he had to do this to see how they would go is ridiculous.
Quote: Rogues Gallery "I still think that but for the injuries to Mossop and Goulding (leaving us only two subs) the game would probably have been won, but that in many ways is taking away from a gutsy Widnes performance.
What we don't know is what the injury situation actually was going into yesterdays game. Tommy has definitely carrying a knock for about two weeks and I think Lockers also has. He played for almost half of last season carrying an injury. They were the two players we missed most yesterday.'"
The fact we let slip an 18 point lead had far more to do with the fact most of the on-field leaders were sat in the stand than anything else.
You simply can not take the leading players out and expect it to have no detrimental effect. The fact on paper Wane may have thought that team was capable of winning was very naive and not something I'd expect of a 1st grade coach. You don't just fling a team together like that and have it click and play as a team. People seem surprised we let an 18 point lead slip. Well I would be as well if it was the first team playing but given the side that was out there I don't understand why people are surprised it could not keep its composure.
It is just not on for the senior players who were out there such as Hock and Finch to be expected to carry that many inexperienced players for 80 minutes. No wonder Finch stormed off at the end. He was probably as disgusted with Wane's selection as most of the fans.
As to injuries Wane has said we had a couple but that he also wanted to play the young players which is what he did. He will hopefully have learned that all he should have done is replace the couple of injured players, not rip the backbone out of the side.
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| Quote: DaveO " No wonder Finch stormed off at the end. He was probably as disgusted with Wane's selection as most of the fans.
'"
Why did Finch storm off, anyone know ? I have also read on another thread that Finch has decided to go back 'downunder'.
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "What Wanes saying in that interview is exactly what I was alluding to on the short sighted thread.
Fans are all for playing the youngsters. Supporters get very enthusiastic when they see a player come through our own systems and make it to first grade Super League. And certainly for this game against Widnes supporters were all for playing one or two untried youngsters all for the reasons you mentioned to see how they cope, to see where we are for the future etc. I'm sure practically every supporter on this board would be in agreement with that, in fact, I think on the '19 man squad thread' supporters were advocating doing just that. The consensus being to play Joe Mellor and Anthony Gelling with Hughes keeping his spot in the back row.
However what supporters have a problem with (and I completely agree) is playing too many young lads at the same time against Super League opposition. Logan Tomkins, Joe Mellor, Anthony Gelling and Matty Russell are complete rookies with Tom Spencer also in there and Jack Hughes covering for George Carmont in an unfamiliar position too - you're just compounding the pressure on the side. Resting key players - Pat Richards, Sam Tomkins, Thomas Leuluai and Sean O'loughlin is too much. That's your best player, your main goal kicker, your halfback and your captain - your most influential player - all rested for one match with no less than SIX complete rookies in the side. It's not the way to bring through these undeniably talented lads in a professional environment.
I can't comprehend why Shaun Wane did what he did. His methods so far of drip feeding some youngsters into the side was working perfectly. Jack Hughes coming in for George Carmont with Pat Richards outside him and Tom Spencer getting some game time off the bench in short spells. Magnificent. Perfect. Exactly the way to bring the young lads in, maintain results and build up their confidence, allowing them time to settle to the pace of Super League. Throwing six young lads in one match, dropping four of your best and more importantly most experienced players is suicide - as we found out.
So fans have every right to be annoyed. That was embarrassing. Last year only a point separated the top two teams - we just blew a chance to go top and for Wire to have to chase us early on in the season. That was a historic win for Widnes and one we wont be able to live down anytime soon. Celtic Crusaders was one of the most embarrassing defeats I've had to endure as a Wigan fan. Losing to a side with a 100% loss record, rookie halfbacks, two imports rushed in, quickly put together squad, low on confidence Widnes team is something else.
Shaun Wane needs to lose the ego and stop trying to make a point about Madge's tenure at the club. He got it wrong this week - big time. Continue to drip feed the young lads like he has been doing around our experienced players and we'll see these lads develop like we've seen with Charnley, Mossop, Farrell, Tuson etc develop. Continue to let his ego rule his head will see him lose his job.
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| Quote: cadoo "Fans are all for playing the youngsters. Supporters get very enthusiastic when they see a player come through our own systems and make it to first grade Super League. And certainly for this game against Widnes supporters were all for playing one or two untried youngsters all for the reasons you mentioned to see how they cope, to see where we are for the future etc. I'm sure practically every supporter on this board would be in agreement with that, in fact, I think on the '19 man squad thread' supporters were advocating doing just that. The consensus being to play Joe Mellor and Anthony Gelling with Hughes keeping his spot in the back row.
However what supporters have a problem with (and I completely agree) is playing too many young lads at the same time against Super League opposition. Logan Tomkins, Joe Mellor, Anthony Gelling and Matty Russell are complete rookies with Tom Spencer also in there and Jack Hughes covering for George Carmont in an unfamiliar position too - you're just compounding the pressure on the side. Resting key players - Pat Richards, Sam Tomkins, Thomas Leuluai and Sean O'loughlin is too much. That's your best player, your main goal kicker, your halfback and your captain - your most influential player - all rested for one match with no less than SIX complete rookies in the side. It's not the way to bring through these undeniably talented lads in a professional environment.
I can't comprehend why Shaun Wane did what he did. His methods so far of drip feeding some youngsters into the side was working perfectly. Jack Hughes coming in for George Carmont with Pat Richards outside him and Tom Spencer getting some game time off the bench in short spells. Magnificent. Perfect. Exactly the way to bring the young lads in, maintain results and build up their confidence, allowing them time to settle to the pace of Super League. Throwing six young lads in one match, dropping four of your best and more importantly most experienced players is suicide - as we found out.
So fans have every right to be annoyed. That was embarrassing. Last year only a point separated the top two teams - we just blew a chance to go top and for Wire to have to chase us early on in the season. That was a historic win for Widnes and one we wont be able to live down anytime soon. Celtic Crusaders was one of the most embarrassing defeats I've had to endure as a Wigan fan. Losing to a side with a 100% loss record, rookie halfbacks, two imports rushed in, quickly put together squad, low on confidence Widnes team is something else.
Shaun Wane needs to lose the ego and stop trying to make a point about Madge's tenure at the club. He got it wrong this week - big time. Continue to drip feed the young lads like he has been doing around our experienced players and we'll see these lads develop like we've seen with Charnley, Mossop, Farrell, Tuson etc develop. Continue to let his ego rule his head will see him lose his job.'"
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| Quote: cadoo "Fans are all for playing the youngsters. Supporters get very enthusiastic when they see a player come through our own systems and make it to first grade Super League. And certainly for this game against Widnes supporters were all for playing one or two untried youngsters all for the reasons you mentioned to see how they cope, to see where we are for the future etc. I'm sure practically every supporter on this board would be in agreement with that, in fact, I think on the '19 man squad thread' supporters were advocating doing just that. The consensus being to play Joe Mellor and Anthony Gelling with Hughes keeping his spot in the back row.
However what supporters have a problem with (and I completely agree) is playing too many young lads at the same time against Super League opposition. Logan Tomkins, Joe Mellor, Anthony Gelling and Matty Russell are complete rookies with Tom Spencer also in there and Jack Hughes covering for George Carmont in an unfamiliar position too - you're just compounding the pressure on the side. Resting key players - Pat Richards, Sam Tomkins, Thomas Leuluai and Sean O'loughlin is too much. That's your best player, your main goal kicker, your halfback and your captain - your most influential player - all rested for one match with no less than SIX complete rookies in the side. It's not the way to bring through these undeniably talented lads in a professional environment.
I can't comprehend why Shaun Wane did what he did. His methods so far of drip feeding some youngsters into the side was working perfectly. Jack Hughes coming in for George Carmont with Pat Richards outside him and Tom Spencer getting some game time off the bench in short spells. Magnificent. Perfect. Exactly the way to bring the young lads in, maintain results and build up their confidence, allowing them time to settle to the pace of Super League. Throwing six young lads in one match, dropping four of your best and more importantly most experienced players is suicide - as we found out.
So fans have every right to be annoyed. That was embarrassing. Last year only a point separated the top two teams - we just blew a chance to go top and for Wire to have to chase us early on in the season. That was a historic win for Widnes and one we wont be able to live down anytime soon. Celtic Crusaders was one of the most embarrassing defeats I've had to endure as a Wigan fan. Losing to a side with a 100% loss record, rookie halfbacks, two imports rushed in, quickly put together squad, low on confidence Widnes team is something else.
Shaun Wane needs to lose the ego and stop trying to make a point about Madge's tenure at the club. He got it wrong this week - big time. Continue to drip feed the young lads like he has been doing around our experienced players and we'll see these lads develop like we've seen with Charnley, Mossop, Farrell, Tuson etc develop. Continue to let his ego rule his head will see him lose his job.'"
By far and away the best post on the subject.
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| Quote: cadoo "Fans are all for playing the youngsters. Supporters get very enthusiastic when they see a player come through our own systems and make it to first grade Super League. And certainly for this game against Widnes supporters were all for playing one or two untried youngsters all for the reasons you mentioned to see how they cope, to see where we are for the future etc. I'm sure practically every supporter on this board would be in agreement with that, in fact, I think on the '19 man squad thread' supporters were advocating doing just that. The consensus being to play Joe Mellor and Anthony Gelling with Hughes keeping his spot in the back row.
However what supporters have a problem with (and I completely agree) is playing too many young lads at the same time against Super League opposition. Logan Tomkins, Joe Mellor, Anthony Gelling and Matty Russell are complete rookies with Tom Spencer also in there and Jack Hughes covering for George Carmont in an unfamiliar position too - you're just compounding the pressure on the side. Resting key players - Pat Richards, Sam Tomkins, Thomas Leuluai and Sean O'loughlin is too much. That's your best player, your main goal kicker, your halfback and your captain - your most influential player - all rested for one match with no less than SIX complete rookies in the side. It's not the way to bring through these undeniably talented lads in a professional environment.
I can't comprehend why Shaun Wane did what he did. His methods so far of drip feeding some youngsters into the side was working perfectly. Jack Hughes coming in for George Carmont with Pat Richards outside him and Tom Spencer getting some game time off the bench in short spells. Magnificent. Perfect. Exactly the way to bring the young lads in, maintain results and build up their confidence, allowing them time to settle to the pace of Super League. Throwing six young lads in one match, dropping four of your best and more importantly most experienced players is suicide - as we found out.
So fans have every right to be annoyed. That was embarrassing. Last year only a point separated the top two teams - we just blew a chance to go top and for Wire to have to chase us early on in the season. That was a historic win for Widnes and one we wont be able to live down anytime soon. Celtic Crusaders was one of the most embarrassing defeats I've had to endure as a Wigan fan. Losing to a side with a 100% loss record, rookie halfbacks, two imports rushed in, quickly put together squad, low on confidence Widnes team is something else.
Shaun Wane needs to lose the ego and stop trying to make a point about Madge's tenure at the club. He got it wrong this week - big time. Continue to drip feed the young lads like he has been doing around our experienced players and we'll see these lads develop like we've seen with Charnley, Mossop, Farrell, Tuson etc develop. Continue to let his ego rule his head will see him lose his job.'"
well said especially the last section!
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| Quote: cadoo "Fans are all for playing the youngsters. Supporters get very enthusiastic when they see a player come through our own systems and make it to first grade Super League. And certainly for this game against Widnes supporters were all for playing one or two untried youngsters all for the reasons you mentioned to see how they cope, to see where we are for the future etc. I'm sure practically every supporter on this board would be in agreement with that, in fact, I think on the '19 man squad thread' supporters were advocating doing just that. The consensus being to play Joe Mellor and Anthony Gelling with Hughes keeping his spot in the back row.
However what supporters have a problem with (and I completely agree) is playing too many young lads at the same time against Super League opposition. Logan Tomkins, Joe Mellor, Anthony Gelling and Matty Russell are complete rookies with Tom Spencer also in there and Jack Hughes covering for George Carmont in an unfamiliar position too - you're just compounding the pressure on the side. Resting key players - Pat Richards, Sam Tomkins, Thomas Leuluai and Sean O'loughlin is too much. That's your best player, your main goal kicker, your halfback and your captain - your most influential player - all rested for one match with no less than SIX complete rookies in the side. It's not the way to bring through these undeniably talented lads in a professional environment.
I can't comprehend why Shaun Wane did what he did. His methods so far of drip feeding some youngsters into the side was working perfectly. Jack Hughes coming in for George Carmont with Pat Richards outside him and Tom Spencer getting some game time off the bench in short spells. Magnificent. Perfect. Exactly the way to bring the young lads in, maintain results and build up their confidence, allowing them time to settle to the pace of Super League. Throwing six young lads in one match, dropping four of your best and more importantly most experienced players is suicide - as we found out.
So fans have every right to be annoyed. That was embarrassing. Last year only a point separated the top two teams - we just blew a chance to go top and for Wire to have to chase us early on in the season. That was a historic win for Widnes and one we wont be able to live down anytime soon. Celtic Crusaders was one of the most embarrassing defeats I've had to endure as a Wigan fan. Losing to a side with a 100% loss record, rookie halfbacks, two imports rushed in, quickly put together squad, low on confidence Widnes team is something else.
Shaun Wane needs to lose the ego and stop trying to make a point about Madge's tenure at the club. He got it wrong this week - big time. Continue to drip feed the young lads like he has been doing around our experienced players and we'll see these lads develop like we've seen with Charnley, Mossop, Farrell, Tuson etc develop. Continue to let his ego rule his head will see him lose his job.'"
As some have said best post in the subject by a long way.
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| Quote: cadoo "Fans are all for playing the youngsters. Supporters get very enthusiastic when they see a player come through our own systems and make it to first grade Super League. And certainly for this game against Widnes supporters were all for playing one or two untried youngsters all for the reasons you mentioned to see how they cope, to see where we are for the future etc. I'm sure practically every supporter on this board would be in agreement with that, in fact, I think on the '19 man squad thread' supporters were advocating doing just that. The consensus being to play Joe Mellor and Anthony Gelling with Hughes keeping his spot in the back row.
However what supporters have a problem with (and I completely agree) is playing too many young lads at the same time against Super League opposition. Logan Tomkins, Joe Mellor, Anthony Gelling and Matty Russell are complete rookies with Tom Spencer also in there and Jack Hughes covering for George Carmont in an unfamiliar position too - you're just compounding the pressure on the side. Resting key players - Pat Richards, Sam Tomkins, Thomas Leuluai and Sean O'loughlin is too much. That's your best player, your main goal kicker, your halfback and your captain - your most influential player - all rested for one match with no less than SIX complete rookies in the side. It's not the way to bring through these undeniably talented lads in a professional environment.
I can't comprehend why Shaun Wane did what he did. His methods so far of drip feeding some youngsters into the side was working perfectly. Jack Hughes coming in for George Carmont with Pat Richards outside him and Tom Spencer getting some game time off the bench in short spells. Magnificent. Perfect. Exactly the way to bring the young lads in, maintain results and build up their confidence, allowing them time to settle to the pace of Super League. Throwing six young lads in one match, dropping four of your best and more importantly most experienced players is suicide - as we found out.
So fans have every right to be annoyed. That was embarrassing. Last year only a point separated the top two teams - we just blew a chance to go top and for Wire to have to chase us early on in the season. That was a historic win for Widnes and one we wont be able to live down anytime soon. Celtic Crusaders was one of the most embarrassing defeats I've had to endure as a Wigan fan. Losing to a side with a 100% loss record, rookie halfbacks, two imports rushed in, quickly put together squad, low on confidence Widnes team is something else.
Shaun Wane needs to lose the ego and stop trying to make a point about Madge's tenure at the club. He got it wrong this week - big time. Continue to drip feed the young lads like he has been doing around our experienced players and we'll see these lads develop like we've seen with Charnley, Mossop, Farrell, Tuson etc develop. Continue to let his ego rule his head will see him lose his job.'"
Spot on.
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| Some good posts on here pointing out the flaws in SW's approach, particularly Cadoo's.
However BK is correct when he points out that it doesn't matter a great deal that we've lost an early season game (unless you think being minor premiers/winning the hubcap is important). Leeds showed that last season.
What does matter is that SW learns from his mistakes and doesn't do things like this at the business end of the season - we need a settled side in the run up to the play-offs.
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| Quote: Deano G "Some good posts on here pointing out the flaws in SW's approach, particularly Cadoo's.
However BK is correct when he points out that it doesn't matter a great deal that we've lost an early season game (unless you think being minor premiers/winning the hubcap is important). Leeds showed that last season.
What does matter is that SW learns from his mistakes and doesn't do things like this at the business end of the season - we need a settled side in the run up to the play-offs.'"
No one is arguing against rotating players and resting them. He could have spread it over Widnes and Broncos and got 4 points whilst still resting players. Problem is he rested so many in one game it cost us the game and 2 points. Even Easter Monday we have Wakey home a great chance to rest 1 or 2 and give 2 young players a run out. Throwing 2 points away is just daft.
Leeds did not actively rotate players all season that's a point some do not real grasp. They were out with serious injuries They all came back fit by mid July. Something Bradford did a few years ago as well.
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| I agree fully about Wane seeming to focus too much on Maguires reign and he seems to want to make a firm point about doing things differently. He has obviously kept a lot of the same structures in place and in attack I think he's improved us but he should just let the results do the talking.
Talk like " Michael did a great job but I think we can do better" is all well and good but you are setting yourself up for a fall when you make mistakes like yesterday. The good thing for Wane though is minus his brain fart things have looked pretty rosy and we look well capable of challenging for all trophies again. We infact look a lot more capable then I thought we would.
Just please no more meltdowns of yesterday's proportions!
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| Quote: gray "The gamble to rest so many players has backfired big time. Letting Stefan Marsh play and score against us was rubbing salt into the wound. It was the proverbial "bannana skin".
If we were playing Wire or Saints would we have done the same, would we hell. Why did they need resting anyway, only 5 games into the season.
Yes, the young lads do need blooding into the first team but one or two at a time, not four debutants all at once and in key positions. Compared to Widnes we do have a big squad but we already had three senior players out in Carmont, Fielden and Prescott. Resting another five seriously weakened the squad.
It smacks of arrogance, shows a lack of respect to the opposition and was tactically naive.
Instead of being top we are now 3rd and if Leeds and Cats win their games in hand[size we are potentially 5th[/size.
Nil out of ten for decision making I'm afraid Shaun.'"
That bit .
5th is acceptable but I'd prefer 1st .
Well done to your young lads by the way. By most accounts they put in a good effort against a team of far more experienced players . Losing a game to the new boys ain't the end of the world , but I am thankful that is was you and not us that were the first victims .
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| Wane's a new coach. He probably went a bit too far with the kids. But not much - you lost by 1 point and should have won anyway. He knows as well as anyone that having just one of the rested players on the bench would have made a difference if needed.
I don't expect a coach to necessarily come out and say "I was wrong" either - you might want them to think it to themselves, but around the players I'm not sure its a good idea.
I'd also add that I think a few clubs are looking more seriously at rotation this year - probably as a direct result of Leeds peaking at the end of the season and the fact that Wigan seemed to run out of steam a bit. Wane overdid it, and a loss is always a loss, but hopefully he'll learn from it.
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| Quote: fleabag "Why did Finch storm off, anyone know ? I have also read on another thread that Finch has decided to go back 'downunder'.'"
it must be true then
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-278 |
19 |
Whitehaven |
25 |
437 |
826 |
-389 |
18 |
Dewsbury |
27 |
348 |
879 |
-531 |
4 |
Hunslet |
1 |
6 |
10 |
-4 |
0 |
|