In todays game the 'donkey work' alone isn;t good enough. Potter for example wouldn't get into most SL teams as we need more from our players the game has moved on.
Westwood does the donkey work as well as the big hit and line breaks which are more eye catching. He has developed into an excellent player for Wire and England.

I wasn't comparing HH to Westwood, but i agree that Westwood has developed into a very good player for Wire and England. Regarding the donkey work remark, I was just referring to the 30 odd tackles a game HH makes and the countless dummy runs he does to open space for others, stuff that i would guess a large chunk of our supporters don't see. As well as all that, i think he does do the big hits and line breaks.

I never claimed he didn't. I think he does have a strong work rate. I simply said donkey work along isn't enough thesedays. I made no reference to HH.

No direct reference, but the donkey work remark you made was aimed at him. Anyway, it's seems well known you're not his biggest fan so i'm not gonna try and flog a dead horse.

No it wasn't aimed at him in the slightest.

I'm a huge fan of Hansen as I've pointed out in the past and he's on top form but he's not as good as Westwood and I don't think we should let our love of all things Wigan cloud that judgement.

Guys like Hoffman, Joel and in the long term Hock are equals to Westwood in the second row but Hansen is just a touch below that class.

That's not to say he's not a cracking player though as he is

Of course he isn't as good as those players you mentioned, all except Hock who has to prove himself to everyone all over again IMO. I just think teams need players like HH to compliment the flashy ones.

Correct.

Hansen allows others to stand out and take some glory because he gets through alot of the tough work and helps make space for others.

He can become just as good as westwood..who i never rated up to 2 seasons ago.

nobody will convince me westwood was anywhere near the player he his now at H's age

Quote: NickyKiss " Guys like Hoffman, Joel and in the long term Hock are equals to Westwood in the second row but Hansen is just a touch below that class. '" Pre ban Hock was superior to Westwood. Just look at the stats. Westwoods best ever year form wise last year in comparison to the year Gareth was banned. www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Quote: NickyKiss " Guys like Hoffman, Joel and in the long term Hock are equals to Westwood in the second row but Hansen is just a touch below that class. '" Pre ban Hock was superior to Westwood. Just look at the stats. Westwoods best ever year form wise last year in comparison to the year Gareth was banned. www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011

Both Westwood and Hock are two strong English SR forwards, it seems like its an area which we are strong in.
I wonder if the English first choice SR is still Ellis and Burgess?

I always rated Hock higher than Ellis before his ban. Hopefully he can hit top form and he should be in the squad for the 4N. 4 second rowers of Hock, Ellis, Burgess and Westwood would have been immense but it looks like Burgess will miss out.

i'd have Ellis/Westwood as the two starting 11/12 for England. No way you can justify playing Burgess ahead of those two based on this season