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Quote: wigan_knight "£18 To stand in that embarressment, you should be greatful you get any away support.'"


Especially as you regularly go home the losers. icon_wink.gif

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The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you. Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG



Quote: Dougy "You have got to be taken the p155?!!!!!!

are you saying a club getting 300 in a 400 capacity ground is more impressive than a club getting 50,000 in a 80,000 capacity ground?!!!

Well to answer my own question, yes it is! Poor scouser!'"


In business terms and profit margins probably a yes.

20000@ £10 ..........£200 000 (Wigoon Land)
15000@ £16.......... £240 000 (Saints Ghetto)

No wonder y0ur club can,t buy any decent players if the club is mathematical deficient.

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[img:2n7j1gh7]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/heathenchemist/sig.gif[/img:2n7j1gh7] [size=75:2n7j1gh7][color=red:2n7j1gh7]WIGAN RLFC IS MORE THAN A RUGBY CLUB - IT'S A RELIGION[/color:2n7j1gh7][/size:2n7j1gh7] [size=75:2n7j1gh7][color=black:2n7j1gh7]There will always be a Wigan Warriors no matter what the bitter & twisted blues say[/color:2n7j1gh7][/size:2n7j1gh7]:25472.jpg



Quote: Saint Simon "you're right, but its an expensive gamble.
asuming wigan have around 10k season ticket holders and Saints 6k. Wigan sold about 10000 tickets at £10 -£5 (call it £9 for ease) Saints sold 9500 tickets at £22 - £8 (call it £15 for ease again). Wigan took about £90000, Saints £142500.'"


You have not included for any refreshments in your total, the queues were there all through the game

icon_cheers.gif

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Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40218.jpg



Quote: wigan_knight "£18 To stand in that embarressment, you should be greatful you get any away support.'"

It isn't an embarrassment. It's an artifact!

Besides, someone had to pay for the dodgy floodlight (along with the dodgy roofs and dodgy toilets and dodgy pretty much everything else). I think all the money from the gate goes into just keeping Knowsley Road standing. It's, er, why we need a new stadium!

At least you get a roof at your end, unlike when you visit Leeds (who charge £20 for the privilege). Just a pity more of you didn't turn up on Friday. There were fewer of you than the last time you played at our place but I thought there would be more given that you beat us the previous time out. icon_confused.gif

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Quote: SaintsFan "It isn't an embarrassment. It's an artifact!

Besides, someone had to pay for the dodgy floodlight (along with the dodgy roofs and dodgy toilets and dodgy pretty much everything else). I think all the money from the gate goes into just keeping Knowsley Road standing. It's, er, why we need a new stadium!

At least you get a roof at your end, unlike when you visit Leeds (who charge £20 for the privilege). Just a pity more of you didn't turn up on Friday. There were fewer of you than the last time you played at our place but I thought there would be more given that you beat us the previous time out.
Surely, as you are all such wonderful suportive fans, you should be able to fill the "Artifact" all on your own, each week, But for some reason, you get nowhere near. God help you if you ever become less succesful..

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The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you. Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG



Quote: Wigan Peer "Surely, as you are all such wonderful suportive fans, you should be able to fill the "Artifact" all on your own, each week, But for some reason, you get nowhere near. God help you if you ever become less succesful..'"


Will you be using the 2500 fans at Central Park when you got relegated as a typical example.

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[b:2boqkfe7][color=#800000:2boqkfe7]WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024 SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2023 & 2024 CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024 LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020, 2023 & 2024 ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 & 2024 WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018 BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2024 CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012 [/color:2boqkfe7][/b:2boqkfe7]:



Quote: Judder Man "In business terms and profit margins probably a yes.

20000@ £10 ..........£200 000 (Wigoon Land) v Leeds
15000@ £16.......... £240 000 (Saints Ghetto) v Wigan

No wonder y0ur club can,t buy any decent players if the club is mathematical deficient.'"


If you're going to compare at least compare like for like opponents (and using your maths formula)Wigan
22,000 @ £16 ...........£352,000 v Stains at JJB
20,000 @ £10 ...........£200,000 v Leeds at JJB

Total Revenue - £552,000


Stains
15,000 @ £16 ...........£240,000 v Wigan at KR
14,000 @ £16 ............£224,000 v Leeds at KR

Total Revenue - £464,000


Then again we could discuss revenue for over the season as both Wigan & Stains have had 11 home games, Hell.....I'll even knock a pound off the whole season to cover reduced prices for the Leeds gameWigan

Total attendance so far - 157,097 @ £15 £2,356,455
Average so farStains

Total attendance so far - 129188 @ £16 £2,067,008
Average so far
Left to play


Wigan - Warrington (h) 20K plus expected & Hull FC (h) 15K plus expected


Stains - Hudds (h) less than 10K expected, Catalans (h)less than 9K expected.

I'd expect Wigan to come in 400-500K over and above Stains at the end of the season.

So what was you saying about our club not buying any decent players as we are mathematically deficient? icon_lol.gif

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The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you. Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG



Quote: MattyB "If you're going to compare at least compare like for like opponents (and using your maths formula)Wigan
22,000 @ £16 ...........£352,000 v Stains at JJB
20,000 @ £10 ...........£200,000 v Leeds at JJB

Total Revenue - £552,000


Stains
15,000 @ £16 ...........£240,000 v Wigan at KR
14,000 @ £16 ............£224,000 v Leeds at KR

Total Revenue - £464,000


Then again we could discuss revenue for over the season as both Wigan & Stains have had 11 home games, Hell.....I'll even knock a pound off the whole season to cover reduced prices for the Leeds gameWigan

Total attendance so far - 157,097 @ £15 £2,356,455
Average so farStains

Total attendance so far - 129188 @ £16 £2,067,008
Average so far
Left to play


Wigan - Warrington (h) 20K plus expected & Hull FC (h) 15K plus expected


Stains - Hudds (h) less than 10K expected, Catalans (h)less than 9K expected.

I'd expect Wigan to come in 400-500K over and above Stains at the end of the season.

So what was you saying about our club not buying any decent players as we are mathematically deficient?
You've just proved my point, if Wigan are say 0.5 million over Saints turnover, how come Wigan don,t have better players and are a more successful team than saints. Is it because saints players give better value for money and the wigan get there maths wrong by overpaying average players. Surely this mathematically deficient.

Also if you look at Asset values the Wigan club is of little value, where as in 2011 saints new stadium will have an asset value of £25 000 000.
Surely this is mathematically defecient.

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Quote: Judder Man "You've just proved my point, if Wigan are say 0.5 million over Saints turnover, how come Wigan don,t have better players and are a more successful team than saints. Is it because saints players give better value for money and the wigan get there maths wrong by overpaying average players. Surely this mathematically deficient.

'"


It's because we are only two years of being a proper run club. Between late 1999 and late 2007 we were bankrolled appallingly by Dave Whelan who just never run the club in a proper way. That's why we did nothing on the field of play. Throughout that spelt it just went worse and worse and worse with no real idea of how to control the salary cap. Compare that to Saints who have been very well run and thats the difference between the clubs.

You can't just change it overnight but Lenegan will get there I'm confident of that.

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The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you. Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG



Quote: Bilko "It's because we are only two years of being a proper run club. Between late 1999 and late 2007 we were bankrolled appallingly by Dave Whelan who just never run the club in a proper way. That's why we did nothing on the field of play. Throughout that spelt it just went worse and worse and worse with no real idea of how to control the salary cap. Compare that to Saints who have been very well run and thats the difference between the clubs.

You can't just change it overnight but Lenegan will get there I'm confident of that.'"



Totally agree.

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[b:2boqkfe7][color=#800000:2boqkfe7]WIGAN RLFC - SL ERA WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS 2017 & 2024 SUPER LEAGUE CHAMPIONS 1998, 2010, 2013, 2016, 2018, 2023 & 2024 CHALLENGE CUP FINAL WINNERS 2002, 2011, 2013, 2022 & 2024 LEAGUE LEADERS CHAMPIONS 2010, 2012, 2020, 2023 & 2024 ACADEMY GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 & 2024 WOMEN’S GRAND FINAL WINNERS 2018 BEST SUPPORTED CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2024 CLUB OF THE YEAR 2010 & 2012 [/color:2boqkfe7][/b:2boqkfe7]:



Quote: Judder Man "You've just proved my point, if Wigan are say 0.5 million over Saints turnover, how come Wigan don,t have better players and are a more successful team than saints. Is it because saints players give better value for money and the wigan get there maths wrong by overpaying average players. Surely this mathematically deficient.

Also if you look at Asset values the Wigan club is of little value, where as in 2011 saints new stadium will have an asset value of £25 000 000.
Surely this is mathematically defecient.'"


Talk about changing the Goalposts (or in this case Rugby Posts) icon_lol.gif

Suddenly you're now talking about players on the pitch and Stadium ownership.....not revenue from attendances (which is what you were initially insinuating) icon_lol.gif

Both clubs spend upto the maximum on the cap, players class, worth or performances are irrelevant.

Stadium ownership??? We have a 50 year lease with the Stadium Company, where we have 'as IL admitted' a very very generous tenancy. We don't have to worry about maintenance, costs...etc..!! It's all in the deal..!!

Given the choice which would you rather have?

A 50 year mortgage at £1200 per month and all the costs.

A 50 year lease at £250 per month from your millionaire mate to stay in his house, all expenses covered.

Don't state crap about passing the house down to dependants, this is a club! (Who's to say RL will even be being played professionally in 50 years)?


Oh and I'm 100% convinced that if we were ever served notice (which we won't) we would find the £25million for a new stadium within months anyway..! icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Judder Man "You've just proved my point, if Wigan are say 0.5 million over Saints turnover, how come Wigan don,t have better players and are a more successful team than saints. Is it because saints players give better value for money and the wigan get there maths wrong by overpaying average players. Surely this mathematically deficient.

Also if you look at Asset values the Wigan club is of little value, where as in 2011 saints new stadium will have an asset value of £25 000 000.
Surely this is mathematically defecient.'"

Edge Hall Road is a pretty big asset on the Wigan balance sheet - Saints new stadium is still just aspiration for the moment.

As for the better players dig - the previous poster is on the money about the management situation, but its also a legacy of a supposed level playing field that Saints have been finding every risky loophole and fiddle possible to keep the team at the top. No surprises that since the tax loopholes were closed, there are now more outgoings at Saints than incomings. Good job you have some decent youngsters to fall back on for now, but don't tell me they are a straight substitute for the wages of Sculthorpe, Long, Gilmour, Cayless, Talau, etc, that will have disappeared over the last two years.

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23 - 20 - 4 Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10174.png



Quote: Judder Man "
Also if you look at Asset values the Wigan club is of little value, where as in 2011 saints new stadium will have an asset value of £25 000 000.
Surely this is mathematically defecient.'"



What the hell does that have to do with anything? Who is funding Stains new stadium? icon_lol.gif

A discussion about attendance revenues turns into a mystery valuation of a non-existant stadium icon_lol.gif

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The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you. Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG



Quote: MattyB "

Given the choice which would you rather have?

A 50 year mortgage at £1200 per month and all the costs.

A 50 year lease at £250 per month from your millionaire mate to stay in his house, all expenses covered
.


anyway..!
Think I would have the mortgage:

After 5 years I am going bankrupt, sell the house, get some residual value and I am saved.

After 5 years millionaire going bankrupt has to sell ground, tenant contract terminated, and as they say in the weakest link. "You go away with nothing".

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23 - 20 - 4 Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10174.png



Quote: Judder Man "Think I would have the mortgage


So if Stains go bankrupt they can just sell off their shiney new stadium, bank the equity and all is well icon_lol.gif

Tenant contract terminated if DW goes "bankrupt" and sells the stadium? icon_lol.gif

Deary me today.

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Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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