I think I may have caused some confusion about drip feeding players into the squad by giving numbers of games. I wasn't stating that there should be a concrete plan set out where a young lad will play only x number of times and no more at 18, then y number of times and no more at 19 and so on. These were just arbitrary numbers to put accross the point that I think players will cope better if given an increasing number of games each season from a younger age rather than waiting two more years in the reserves with no first team experience and then being thrown into most games when either the coach willingly chooses or is forced to. Whilst there will be some players like Sam Tomkins who can do well if thrust straight in (Myler in my view is a different case as he played NL for Widnes and Salford before SL) many more will fail so going from nowhere to first team regular is not a good way to introduce young players.

I think we have established on here that the title of this thread is all wrong, there is more than 2 major problems at Wigan.

One of the things that certainly isn't wrong with Wigan is the fans. I am constantly impressed with their commitment to the "team" if the team had half the same commitment they would be top 4 easy. The squad is good enough, on paper, but where is the direction and / or coaching? It pains me to say it but if Saints were in the same position as wigan, we would struggle to get 7000 on.

Fairplay to you saying that, respect, not many fans can say things like that about Wigan. I think we would have an average around 18-20,000 had we played like saints for the last 2 years.

Hull fans are the same really we and them have had poor teams for some years now, not performing on the field but both doing it right off the field in terms of fans.

I think the fans showed their metal when we nearly got relegated a couple of years back yet our crowds went up in the process to cheer and help the side avoid relegation.

Unfortunatly they've dropped a touch this year due to the fact that people are bored of being mid table.

We really do need to progress the side now.

That turned out to be a great year for that reason. I was so proud of all our fans that year. The Leeds away game was amazing. Even the west stand stood up singing that season. The atmosphere has been the worst in super league this year. We really needed to kick on from that relegation year but we have not quite delivered since. Fans are starting to lose patience and not going to games, crowds are on the way down. If it carries on we will start seeing crowds of below 10,000 again. We should be averaging 16,000 at least. IL said a figure like 20,000 to be averaging in 5 years but thats not gonna happen.

If after having your fingers burned with Fielden you don't drive a stake through the heart of the "If you're good enough you're old enough" mantra on sight you deserve everything you get.

Continental football coaches (not the English let's-go-out-on-the-lash-for-team-bonding failures) who listen to the advice of sports scientists have long understood that you can't dump a mature pro's workload on a kid. It kills them.

Yep.........Faz and Edwards and Robinson turned out to be rubbish didn't they?

Every kid that ever comes into a first team before the age of 20 doesn't always end up in a heap come their late 20's but i do get your point.

Unless your a physical freak like an Inglis or Folau any young kid will need resting every so often but Noble doesn't do 'rests', he does 'dropping' or more to the point leaving any kid out however well they've played so he doesn't put a more senior players noce out of joint.

That is what we lack in this country we do not produce players like this.

Pick out the best we have brought through in this country recnetly, Roby, Graham and Burgess, they do not even begin to compare to Inglis and Folau.

I think the problem in this country is that the real physically talented kids like Inglis or Folau go into other sports like Football or Atheltics.