Stories like that were regularly aired in those days. More than a couple of the 'talented youngsters' that we released around then really thought they were the bees knees. I also remember hearing that there were several hangers-on in the vicinity of the club who encouraged this attitude by always massaging these lads' egos and constantly telling them they were too good for a Wigan club that didn't appreciate them.

I'm hoping things are different now, because we don't hear anything like the same amount of negative gossip.

He must have been littering car parks again

folks, a Wigan-supporting mate has drawn my attention to this thread, on basis that the original paragraph may have come from the excerpt on Guardian website that appeared Thursday (www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jun/ ... ugby-books) - although that may be wrong, it may have been in Wigan press as Phil Wilkinson did the book with Rads. Either way, this isn't a complaint, just a polite invitation / request - if any of you have any thoughts on the subject and can be bothered registering to blog on Guardian site (don't think it takes long) as well as here, it all helps the process of showing those who make editorial decisions that there is sufficient interest for on-line rl coverage. shan't bother you again! andy

folks, a Wigan-supporting mate has drawn my attention to this thread, on basis that the original paragraph may have come from the excerpt on Guardian website that appeared Thursday (www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2009/jun/ ... ugby-books) - although that may be wrong, it may have been in Wigan press as Phil Wilkinson did the book with Rads. Either way, this isn't a complaint, just a polite invitation / request - if any of you have any thoughts on the subject and can be bothered registering to blog on Guardian site (don't think it takes long) as well as here, it all helps the process of showing those who make editorial decisions that there is sufficient interest for on-line rl coverage. shan't bother you again! andy

Wasn't it down to the likes of Radlinski to maintain the Wigan culture though? I can't imagine, say, KC allowing young players to take the p*ss. And I would hope the likes of Graham/Wilkin/Roby will insist on the same after the likes of KC/Long/Wellens are gone, after they took over from the likes of Chris Joynt.

I don't think the Radlinski generation are free from blame in all this - the winning culture of which he speaks was in place when he arrived on the scene, fostered by the greats that preceded him, and gone when he left.

Although Radlinski himself was, by all accounts and from my own observations, the ultimate pro.

It's only one person's take on events, though you'd probably believe Radlinski more quickly than most.

I feel there's probably something in what you say, but it could also have been part of the inevitable malaise that comes after a lengthy period of complete dominance. That was an unreal time at Wigan - in some ways more so than it has been at Saints. Saints have always been there or there-abouts, so their recent pole position probably wasn't too much of a culture shock to their fans. For Wigan, it came after a decade of of miserable mediocrity, during which they actually got relegated. It was totally intoxicating to suddenly be so powerful. Lots of players from that period - some of whom are now revered (Shaun Edwards, Ellery Hanley, etc) - had off-field issues not totally unrelated to a 'do you know who I am?' attitude - but it was glossed over by the non-stop success. Later, when the success dried up, this attitude, which had been allowed to proliferate, became a glaring issue.

That said, I blame Rads far less than I blame someone like Faz, who it was said by some at the time had a destabilising influence over the team, which p**sed off certain coaches. Not that you'd not have wanted Faz to be there - he was Captain Fantastic, no question. But Rads was still a junior when the Wigan machine first started to break down.

In truth, the club was in turmoil behind the scenes. Whelan didn't have a clue, and Mo was ready to retire - their kneejerk reaction to each crisis was simply to hire and fire, which became a problem in itself. The Spartan culture introduced by Graham Lowe and reinforced by John Monie had completely gone.

No doubt, I have a huge amount of respect for him.



Good points. Perhaps this attitude arose because the team became SO much better than it's peers and never really experienced the lows the dominant Saints team has (cup semi final losses, grand final losses, WCC pastings). Wigan I suppose never had quite so much opportunity for the "we never want to feel this way again and need to work harder to avoid it" feelings and soul searching which can be key to developing such a work ethic and culture? I dunno.



Don't know enough about it to comment, I was thinking more the Radlinski generation than him himself, I can't for one second think he had a destabilising effect, but perhaps he was too much of a quiet achiever to stand up to this culture erosion? Obviously that's total guesswork having never been behind the scenes at the club and probably does him a great disservice.



A lack of continuity and high staff turnover will erode culture in any organisation, and even more so in sport.

I think the difference between then and now as regards any attitude players may have had is back then is the players were great players and so if they did have an attitude at least they had their undoubted position at the top of the game to justify it. Not so when we are talking about some of our recent so called stars and certainly not any young players who are just starting out.

That said while tales of massive ego clashes between the likes of Edwards, Hanley and Gregory are famous that was an internal club thing and I don't think it followed them out onto the streets of Wigan. It certainly didn't affect the teams performance either.



That is all very recent. As I said earlier I think Rads is going back further.

My own view is the rot set in when the Whitbread stand went way over budget and the ARL/NRL war had Wigan enter a bidding war to retain players like Connolly and Robinson. We also started releasing players like Inga and Quinnell and started to make some mediocre signings of both players and coaches.

Dave

Here's a first.

I agree with DaveO.

I absolutely agree with that. Jack Robinson, though he was instrumental in bringing Wigan that golden era of success, and oversaw what was probably our greatest triumph - the win over Brisbane in 1994 - had all sorts of problems when he was flying solo.

If memory serves, he got involved in a damaging court case after some local rag accused him of corruption, which he duly won - though it took its toll. He also had the cash crisis to deal with. I remember being baffled when we suddenly started signing players like Mark Bell, Danny Moore, Doc Murray, etc. The assumption was that these guys must be secret weapons - that Wigan had spotted something in them that no-one else had, and that they were about to rock the RL world. It was impossible to imagine that Wigan were 'just another club' again.

It took quite a few years for the fans to adjust to this, and even longer for the club itself IMO, because when Whelan came in on his white charger, the idea was obviously to buy our crown back with massive signings, while the seriously clever work was done with Latics - the only trouble was the introduction of the Salary Cap meant that we couldn't buy anything back, and Whelan and Mo clearly didn't have a Plan B. Nor did either of them have the interest or energy to evolve one - hence the rot was not stopped.

I was very relieved when Mo and Whelan sold up. I know there've been issues since IL took over, but I genuinely felt the club was adrift without a rudder before. And when you look at the dire mess we'd sunk into - and Radlinski's comments indicate that it had gone far deeper than I personally had imagined, in that it had even wiped out the 'Wigan culture' - then it's understandable that the tidying up job is still under way.

It's in Wigan and full of Wiganers

Seriously though i think that the talent pool is shrinking due to people playing and taking up football. Can you honestly say that you us saints etc etc
have anyone coming up as good as Radlinski ?
We have some good players coming up but not superstars.
Rads could have quite easily played in NRL whereas hardly any of the English lads now would get in even the lower tier league Aus sides.

It's not the salary cap at fault it's bad marketing and mis-management and this is filtering down to the playing staff.

Plus namby pamby parents not wanting their kids to get hurt playing a rough sport like rugby

i can sum this up in 1 word, penalty count!