Great minds. I mentioned this to my dad last week right after the game. You are spot on, I had the exact same feeling. Just so dull and boring. Those 2 games are the worst 2 games of rugby I have watched us play at home in the 15 years I've had a season ticket. Dreadful. So boring!

I know you'll think I'm winding you up, but you're over performing in third imo.

Ropey full back, no centres, bang average seven and rookie 6, limited 9, no props and small back row.

It's just not a very good team.

the lad should never have been allowed back on the field he was in cuckoo land after a head knock. He couldn't stand up straight, and not one soul came on and helped him out. It took about four attempts at trying to stand upright before Thaler stopped the game....

then he is back on at the start of the second half as if nothing has happened!! Its no wonder he couldn't hold a ball... no way did he pass a cognitive test.

Forgetting the rivalry and the result, and thinking of the players safety that was a disgrace of a decision to let him back on the pitch.

Agreed. You could clearly see his eyes had gone, absolutely amazed he came back on and it didn't make pretty viewing. Poor all round.

Bowen is fine at 1. The back row is easily good enough. MM at 9 is also and given there is no decent interchange so do the full 80. When he came on he had a big impact. The problems are the front row of the pack, the half backs and the centres.

And the coach.

Smith is average Williams is a rookie and Hampshire also a rookie doesn't get played there but his confidence is probably shot due to being played out of position at 1.

As mentioned we have no interchange hooker but Wane keeps interchanging the no 9, often by the clock.

There centres are also rookies. Gelling is a fans favourite but he's not had many good games against decent sides he can't just run over. Sarginson is also popular because he gives 110% but he's largely all effort and little awareness. Critisice these two and you are on a hiding to nothing most of the time.Thornley has been out all season and he's also pretty inexperienced.

The fact people are willing Clubb back from injury says it all about the effectiveness of the rest of the props.

As to the coach he's tactically out of date and is also trying to get players to a play a game plan they can't play. I have absolutely no doubt with a different more intelligent coach the same set of players would do better. He also must take the blame for going into the season with rookies at 6 and in the centres. I am convinced he believes his own propaganda at times particularly when it comes to young players and had visions of Williams ripping up the league aka Sam Tomkins but it doesn't work like that most of the time.

Would the squad be good enough with the limitations mentioned in the front row, centres and half backs with a different coach? Maybe not but getting hold of just one player, a big hard experienced prop could actually make it competitive against any of the teams as the standard is pretty dire all round.

Mind you that was before I thought they had lost all faith in the coach. There is a malaise in the squad and signing a player won't fix it.

bob on appraisal Dave

Saying Bowen is fine at 1 is absolute lunacy, he is a liability. One of the worst fullback I've seen in years. And one of the worst foreign imports I think I've ever seen. But he's far from alone in being not upto it.

But yet they've excelled wtih a similar roster in recent years. Indeed they really had the wood over us 18 months ago.

WHen Wane's Wigan were ripping it up, it was based on simple but effective qualities.
Prop forwards who based it up with vigour.
Fast line speed to neutralise opposition pack's go forward, done without getting pinged for offside very often.
Good wrestle to slow the PTB.
We'll structured moves through the back that were carried out to perfection.
Players weren't always stars, but they had the often had core qualities for their position rather than flashy extras (players like Goulding & Smith for example).

It seems like the top 3 have gone awry, possibly due to the personnel losing a psychological edge. Now it just seems to be straight to flinging the ball out wide and hoping, but when that's all the oppo have to contend with, its a lot easier.

Its hard to call Wane as he's had so much success, but I really do think that he's had that Wigan roster playing to its full potential for extended periods, playing far beyond the sum of the parts would suggest. To keep that up years on end is a very tough task.

I thought he turned in a half decent game last night, considering.
I even thought that, bar his two clangers, he was pretty good in the derby t'other week. He seems to do a lot of clearing up for you guys, even if it is punctuated with the odd error.

Catastrophic errors that lead to tries though.

I think this is a very fair summary and what I've been arguing for ages (though I think you put it better). Regardless of whether we get to Old Trafford this year Wane has earned the right to see out his contract IMO.

The recruitment for next season is crucial now though. No one had really heard of Cuthbertson before Leeds brought him over, so it makes me think that there are loads of players in the NRL who could do a similar job for us. I'd be looking at someone like Lillyman at the Warriors, who runs hard, fast and arrow straight with a quick ptb every time. He's 31 and might fancy it. But our scouts will (should) know better.

As I said the other day, Lillyman and Matulino, please!


If only...

I really don't understand the logic of this. No one earns the right to keep making mistakes. It's not a charity and if he is actually damaging the team and alienating players he needs to go. The is no room for the sentiment you express IMO.

We sacked John Dorahy when the team won the league and the cup because he'd been sussed out as useless and the team won despite him. I think regardless of what happens Wane has also passed his sell by date.



Do we actually have any scouts who pro-actively suggest we might be interested in certain players? It used to happen like that. Or do we only go looking when we think we need a player by which time its probably too late? I have no idea how the scouting is done these days and we do seem a little obsessed with the homegrown thing.

That's a fair point Dave.

But I'm not arguing on sentiment, rather on logic. The point being - he's done all it before - that is , getting a team to play greater than the sum of its' parts. John Dorahy's team was successful in spite of him, not because of him IIRC.

He's going through a bad patch at the moment, and I understand the criticisms, he's certainly killing the backs for example, but I think he has proved himself a good coach and therefor, it's not worth the upheaval of getting someone else in just yet. Rather than the next Madge, we could just as easily get the next Craig Sandercock or Peter Gentle.

But believe me - I understand your frustration.

That is true and I feel success for us this season will only come in the same way.