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Quote: Deano G "The SC has not been raised in line with inflation. It's value in real terms is at least 30% lower than it was it was brought in (£1.6m in 1999, would after 12 years of inflation at 3% p.a. now equate to almost £2.3m). Despite this, there are few clubs that could afford to overspend the current SC level if they were allowed to. This is a disgrace and a damning indictment of the inept management of the game. '"


This is something that I have always argued. Unlike yourself I actually like the salary cap and think that it is a good idea that just needs tweaking a little. However one must is that it should be linked to inflation so it doesnt decrease in real terms. If this was the case and we had a salary cap of £2.3 million we would have certainly kept a lot more players in the game and could compete with RU much better. It is a joke that some players from the 90s got paid more than players today when TV deals, sponsorship deals, crowds, ticket prices etc have all gone up considerably. Where has all the money gone? It doesnt make sense or add up to me.

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Quote: sergeant pepper "Its a simple equation of

Poor on field product

[iPoor on field product

And that explains why RU is so well viewed? The club rugby is very poorly viewed and the quality is whatever the opposite of elite is. How players like Farrel go from barely able to make the team to international is beyond me as an example.

[iA league where ever game is of the highest quality and you've got 5 top games played over a weekend and fans are spoilt for choice.
[/i

Just like the football? They have a number of good games (or so I hear, I don't like watching) but they have a bigger league where the decent clash happens more frequently because of the size of the league. Imagine the premiership with 10 teams.

[iThat's how you market British RL as having the most competative league in the world. If it raises the level of the championship then even better for us.
[/i

I don't! We don't have the most competitive league in the world, and if we did who actually cares in the world? Are the Aussies tuning in en mass? How about the Germans?


[iI'd also go one step further with SL clubs linking up with league two sides and having A teams in that league mixed in with some others.
[/i

So you would reduce the size of SL and make L2 feeder clubs? So that's 1xSL and 1xL2 squads rather than 2xSL and 2xL2? Reducing the oppertunity to shine isn't the way to encourage improvement.

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Quote: Famous "This is something that I have always argued. Unlike yourself I actually like the salary cap and think that it is a good idea that just needs tweaking a little. However one must is that it should be linked to inflation so it doesnt decrease in real terms. If this was the case and we had a salary cap of £2.3 million we would have certainly kept a lot more players in the game and could compete with RU much better. It is a joke that some players from the 90s got paid more than players today when TV deals, sponsorship deals, crowds, ticket prices etc have all gone up considerably. Where has all the money gone? It doesnt make sense or add up to me.'"


The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency.

I'm not sure that the RU competition actually matters on the whole, look at the players that have been lost. Has RL lost a player that has the media's eye gone? Not in my opinion, because RL hasn't had the media focus nationally to start with. How much of a loss to RL was Andy Farrel/Paul Sculthorpe (not RU) at the time? Is anything Scully was worse due to his Gillette sponsorship loss.

Raising the cap may make more Aussies arrive, but the UK a players have to compete against them to play. Does this make the league improve or get worse?

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Quote: goobervision "[iPoor on field product

And that explains why RU is so well viewed? The club rugby is very poorly viewed and the quality is whatever the opposite of elite is. How players like Farrel go from barely able to make the team to international is beyond me as an example.

[iA league where ever game is of the highest quality and you've got 5 top games played over a weekend and fans are spoilt for choice.
[/i

Just like the football? They have a number of good games (or so I hear, I don't like watching) but they have a bigger league where the decent clash happens more frequently because of the size of the league. Imagine the premiership with 10 teams.

[iThat's how you market British RL as having the most competative league in the world. If it raises the level of the championship then even better for us.
[/i

I don't! We don't have the most competitive league in the world, and if we did who actually cares in the world? Are the Aussies tuning in en mass? How about the Germans?


[iI'd also go one step further with SL clubs linking up with league two sides and having A teams in that league mixed in with some others.
[/i

So you would reduce the size of SL and make L2 feeder clubs? So that's 1xSL and 1xL2 squads rather than 2xSL and 2xL2? Reducing the oppertunity to shine isn't the way to encourage improvement.'"


No but having the current concept is working right?

You talk about RU because YOU think its boring. I personally like the game and love the six nations/world cup tournaments as its competative and will hold your interest.

British RL is in a desperate state due to a lack of high level RL being played every week like it is in the NRL.

I don't believe that the crops of quality youngsters we produce season after season who beat their Aussie counterparts at youth level suddenly turn poor before they hit their peak.

What happens is their development is hindered as they stop being tested to the level NRL players do each week.

I'd love a comp as big and as good as the NRL but sadly we don't have the playing pool to achieve it. Instead of reducing the teams, cutting away the also rans and raising the weekly intensity level we instead dilute the comp with championship level players who we pretend are a lot better than they are.

It baffles me how blind some people are. We can watch standards slip further away season after season but yet some RL fans have their head in the sand.

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Quote: goobervision "The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency.

I'm not sure that the RU competition actually matters on the whole, look at the players that have been lost. Has RL lost a player that has the media's eye gone? Not in my opinion, because RL hasn't had the media focus nationally to start with. How much of a loss to RL was Andy Farrel/Paul Sculthorpe (not RU) at the time? Is anything Scully was worse due to his Gillette sponsorship loss.

Raising the cap may make more Aussies arrive, but the UK a players have to compete against them to play. Does this make the league improve or get worse?'"


Linking the cap to inflation and letting it rise with that isnt raising the cap though in real terms. The cap may be the same as 10 years ago but players today are being paid far less.

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[quote="FlexWheeler":8f22o6ue]The extent of his coaching is ''BASH EM, JUST F*CKING BASH EM. HE'S LOW ON CONFIDENCE, BASH HIM'' He's a limited coach that won't last long term.[/quote:8f22o6ue] .... [quote="rubber duckie":8f22o6ue]That would make Wigan strong favourites then. With Ratchford at FB and Patton with Cronk in the halves, I think we'll do very well without Sam.[/quote:8f22o6ue]:



Quote: Famous "Linking the cap to inflation and letting it rise with that isnt raising the cap though in real terms. The cap may be the same as 10 years ago but players today are being paid far less.'"


a point that most fans fail to understand.

players are getting poorer in real terms, why would they chose to stay in the competition.

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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: goobervision "The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency.'"


You can't believe this, surely.

How many small clubs have won the SL in the SC era?

How many clubs have gone bust or had serious financial difficulties in the SC era?

Are you actually a member of the board of directors of the RFL? icon_confused.gif

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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: Famous "This is something that I have always argued. Unlike yourself I actually like the salary cap and think that it is a good idea that just needs tweaking a little. However one must is that it should be linked to inflation so it doesnt decrease in real terms. If this was the case and we had a salary cap of £2.3 million we would have certainly kept a lot more players in the game and could compete with RU much better. It is a joke that some players from the 90s got paid more than players today when TV deals, sponsorship deals, crowds, ticket prices etc have all gone up considerably. Where has all the money gone? It doesnt make sense or add up to me.'"


I don't like the SC in it's current form, but it is only a symptom of a wider disease. Even if the SC were reformed in the way it should be - to encourage growth, ensure financial stability of clubs with additional financial controls and monitoring and reward clubs for developing players - the SL would still always be weak financially because of the people and culture at the RFL and clubs (and in the wider RL world - as shown by a poster on this thread claiming the SC has done a good job to protect clubs from insolvency!!)

Some of the cash has gone into new stadiums (Wigan's deal diverts a lot of revenue - more than IL has yet admitted publicly - to the stadium company), but it is a bit of a mystery as to where the money has gone, until you realise that clubs have just got used to the status quo under the SC and waste money because they can't spend it on players...

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Quote: Deano G "You can't believe this, surely.

How many small clubs have won the SL in the SC era?

How many clubs have gone bust or had serious financial difficulties in the SC era?

Are you actually a member of the board of directors of the RFL?
So you are of the opinion that the Salary Cap doesn't restrict the larger clubs and that teams like Wigan haven't lost players as a result of the cap?

I don't know how many have had financial difficulties? Are you trying to say that no cap would prevent this? I can't see how a reduced number of teams would fix this, as less games = less cash while fixed costs remain the same (ground maintenance / wages).

Where would the additional fans in a reduced league come from? Lets take Widnes and London out, where do their players go? Where to the bigger clubs players get SL experience? Would Wigan be developing a full back right now, and if so how often would they get a game?

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Quote: Deano G "- as shown by a poster on this thread claiming the SC has done a good job to protect clubs from insolvency!!)'"


I wrote " The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency."

I neither stated that the SC prevented insolvency, nor that they did a good job. I do think that the maximum spending limits which took into account the clubs revenues were a good way, I think that this route with more financial governance would help but I don't think the RFL executed this well.

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[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp] [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg



Quote: goobervision "I wrote " The SC is a great way to cap the achievement of the top teams and level the league. The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency."

I neither stated that the SC prevented insolvency, nor that they did a good job. I do think that the maximum spending limits which took into account the clubs revenues were a good way, I think that this route with more financial governance would help but I don't think the RFL executed this well.'"


"The associated rules were a good way to prevent insolvency". icon_rolleyes.gif

Clubs that have got into serious financial difficulties in the SC era include: London, Bradford, Widnes, Halifax, Crusaders, Wakefield, Salford, Gateshead, Sheffield. There may well be others, but that'll do for starters!

As for the mythical level playing field - it remains mythical. The league title is held by the club with the highest revenue in the competition and the SL this year is likely to be won either by the club with the biggest fan base or the club with the richest owner. I ask again - how many clubs have won the title since the SC came in?

Where did I advocate reducing the number of clubs in the league? Actually I think the issue is not so much the number of clubs but whether we have the right clubs making the right contribution. So, for example, if I were in charge of the SL one of my top priorities would be to get a sustainable Toulouse side into SL.

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simple.... have a 2 tier sl with 10 teams in each tier and have promotion and relegation. could have for example...

tier 1
wigan
leeds
saints
wire
catalan
hull
hull kr
brad
hudders
london

tier 2

salford
wakey
cas
featherstone
leigh
barrow
halifax
batley
widnes
sheffield

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"Games as big as a grand finals define individuals and clubs. Remember we are only renting these shirts, I had my time in Pat Richards shirt. Ellery and Faz had there time in Sean's, Hampo and Radders in Sam's. You have to make a mark in these shirts that's still there the day you hand it over to someone else. So be aware for 80 minutes you are not only playing but also writing history and creating a legacy. How many people get to actually write history, not many. A big stage demands big players, be inspired. You play for Wigan, now go do it. Good luck." - Martin Offiah, 2010.:27588.gif



He said the same on the NRL Footy Show last week where he was a special guest

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I Just Can't Get Enough!!! Ellery Hanley For England!:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_57878.jpg



Quote: cherryandwhitedavid06 "He said the same on the NRL Footy Show last week where he was a special guest'"

Is there any way of watching the footy show over here? Can you stream it or get it on Premier Sports? I love that program.

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[quote="king warrior":prbr924b]Adam Blair flew over yesterday and has been training the deal is going to be signed this week Got to say this is a top signing[/quote:prbr924b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_16493.jpg

Moderator


Quote: Hendy Charming "Is there any way of watching the footy show over here? Can you stream it or get it on Premier Sports? I love that program.'"

There are clips on YouTube.

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Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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