I don't think I could include Isa and Tomkins (assume you mean Joel?) in your list, Itchy. I wouldn't dispute the others, though.

Joel's first spell puts him right in the mix. Phenomenal player pre union

I presume Itchy means Sam. If that is the case then I agree. I have not seen a better fullback at Wigan than Sam and I have watched this team for a long time.

Meeither mate but hes on about back rowers compared to Bateman so surely he means Joel

I thought Joel was great before his departure to union. For me his all round game was much better than Bateman.
I did hesitate before naming Isa but thought what does Bateman offer what Isa cannot do? Both fit, athletic and committed whilst both offer limited attacking options. That’s not criticism of either player but for me is a summary of both players abilities.

John Bateman was right up there IMO during his first spell for us. I wouldn’t have him above Betts, Hock or Liam Farrell but I would put him ahead of anyone else (in Superleague) in terms of his overall contribution. You could make a case for guys like Hoffman and Fletcher being better but they were only here for a short spell. I’d personally leave Andy Farrell out of it, with him being used usually at 13 and then that spell at prop.

Still doesn’t change my mind that we’ve had his best days now and we should (and will) stay well clear.

Fair enough mate. Joel was a very good player.

The Mikey Lewis rumour was from a fake Twitter account claiming to be Shaw, nothing in it at all I don’t think and where would he fit in?

Yeah, it’s been a blessing in disguise.

Joel remains the single best example I can name of the detrimental impact a spell in Union can have on a quality RL player, and it's a high bar given what happened to Henry Paul and Iestyn Harris.

Fans seem to only remember a certain try by Joel, talk about Wigan tinted spectacles, the Anus of Wigan was mediocre at best and only had a career at Wigan to keep little Sammy sweet

Out of all the players Michael Maguire had an impact on in 2010, I think Joel was the biggest turnaround. He went from being a decent player before that, to being absolutely outstanding in 2010 and 2011. I remember when he came back for that 2010 season being amazed by the change is his body shape. He wasn't over weight or unfit prior to that season but he came back and looked like he'd put a load of muscle on and was fitter, stronger, faster etc than previously. The Union spell put a pin in his progress. It's why I wouldn't have him above somebody like Bateman. I think he had 2 excellent years as a Wigan player and either side he was just a decent player.

I could go with that in his early years and his second spell but 2010 and 2011 he was like a totally different player. His form in 2010 in particular was probably one of the best seasons I've seen a Wigan back rower have. I've just had a look at his appearances/trys stats from that season to jog my memory and he got 17 in 34 games. I'd agree though that it certainly wasn't his usual standard throughout his career.

Talk on the Wire forum about Bateman. May be nothing in it as I would expect Hull to try and outbid anyone but will be interesting to see how he goes back in SL

I think it'd be churlish to deny he'd improve most SL sides.