Woolf's not playing with it though!!!! It is shear madness especially with the World Cup coming up. The lad will be having painkilling injections to play, that cannot be good for his long-term health. Mr Woolf, where is your duty of care now, is what I would be asking rather than trying to justifying his actions.

Woolf is ruthless in the way Michael Maguire was. I laughed last week in the build up to the semi when Saints fans were saying Lomax must be fine if he’d been named in the squad as Woolf is so ‘honest and straight up’ He named Grace in the squad so we could all play a guessing game. They’re now admitting Grace won’t be back for another couple of weeks. We won’t get any honesty on the lack of Saints overseas players involved in the mid season international either.

I’ve no issue with how he goes about his business, he’s selfish and looks after Saints and Saints only but I did chuckle at those lines.

It's madness playing Lomax and a decision I believe they'll regret. Worse still, it's one that England's world cup hopes will suffer for. Conflict of interest from the Tongan coach anyone?

Stu, what's your opinion on Havard not getting in the Saints team ahead of Lees or LMS?

I like him. I've waxed lyrical on him on here as being the nearest thing I've seen to Luke Thompson in terms of engine, footwork etc. I think he will be NRL bound though. I'd have him before Lees and LMS in a squad.

Byrne has come on leaps and bounds for you too. I know he really suffered with Covid and struggled with it for a long time afterwards but he seems to be getting some form now.

From what I'm hearing though Harvey Hill could be even better.

Byrne has probably been our most consistent prop this year. He really seems to be relishing doing the tough stuff. It was noticeable that he'd been tasked with keeping Walmsley quiet in that first stint and it worked really well.

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that Havard will end up in the NRL unfortunately. I just hope he stays another 2 or 3 years before considering the move, both for our sake and his. The comparison with Thompson is a good one. He could go over now and probably hold his own but with a couple more years development he could go across and take it by storm (no pun intended!).

There are a few forwards who look the business coming through the ranks at Wigan currently. Hill being one of them. Academy to first team is always a bit of an unknown but if the majority make the transition we're looking at a very strong pack going forward.

Not sure what they feed them but it was noticeable in the Wigan v Saints U16s game that I watched that Wigan had a much bigger physical team.

Just to add some credibility to the Saints fans on here and to prove we aren't biased idiots, I'll 2nd this. Havard is not only a fantastic long-term prospect but already a very good player. He would be in a full strength Saints 17 for sure.

I always exempt yourself, Stu and FTV from the numpties we occasionally get on her. You come at things from a Saints perspective, which is as it should be, but there's balance too and usually a good debate to be had.

What's your view on playing Lomax?

Thanks for that,you and a couple more are not biased idiots by a long way.

I'm no medical expert so I can't say Woolf is right or wrong when he says the injury can't be made worse. However I am confident they wouldn't put him at risk, so it's a case of having to take their word for it in terms of the moral side of things.

As for the rugby side of things, if Lomax can play to 80% of his potential he is still our best option (and better than most in the league) so again for the time being I'm happy to trust their judgement. 1 game isn't enough to judge, especially a game like last week. But if the time comes where he's a passenger or even a liability within the team, I'm sure the club would act accordingly. I think Dodd being injured probably forces their hand a bit, I'm not naive to pretend otherwise. If he was fit then it would be "easier" to let Lomax have surgery and recover in his own time. But being down 2 half backs would spell the end of our season so I can understand why they are keen for him to play on and why he himself is so keen to play on too.

To be honest I don't think Lomax is the issue for us now. It's what we do alongside him. It shows how we much we are lacking an obvious replacement for Dodd when you read the various opinions on who should replace him. Welsby, Davies, Bell, Hopoate, Roby, Lussick even Sironen all been mentioned. That's the biggest conundrum for Saints now, who plays alongside Lomax to get the best out of the team and give us the best shot of winning another GF.

In fairness to the Saints fan who bagged Havard, he had been very sensible until that point and I can sort of see why Havard would go under the radar a little. You need to analyse him statistically sometimes to realise how good he actually is and then factor in things like his age and when you add it all up, he really is a special talent. The most pleasing thing is that I don’t think he’s at 50% of his potential yet. I just hope we can keep for another few seasons yet.

Fair summary mate. I have nothing more than you to go on but I just have a feeling this will come back to bite you. I guess I'm being influenced by playing Harry Smith injured last season because we had no option here, but when you look at how it affected him, and by extension the team, compared to a fully fit one this year then the comparison is there to be made.

Lomax is a far more experienced player than Smith, of course, but there are elements where experience probably has no bearing. You mention an 80% Lomax still being up there with the best and I wouldn't disagree if we were discussing form alone. 80% because of injury, especially and arm injury for a halfback, is somewhat different. There are so many variables that come into play when it's an injury of this sort; wayward passes, needing to hide the player in defence, doubt and uncertainty both for the player himself and his teammates around him and, of course, the possibility that it will go during a game and the disruption that would cause, particularly if we're talking a crunch game like Saturdays semi or the playoffs.

I understand, perhaps, why the club are taking this option. I can't help thinking it's a mistake they'll come to regret.

Yeah I meant if he could play to 80% of his normal levels, not 80% fit as such. It's a difficult one to quantify really. I just know that with Dodd missing too we are struggling to find one replacement; I think two would be impossible.

The injuries to Hopoate really haven't helped either as I think it would be a no brainer to play him at 1 and Welsby in the halves.

I know we have joked many times on here, with NK too, about our injuries (or lack of) but I have never known us chop and change our 1-7 so much so early in a season. If I could be bothered I would have a look at how many different combinations we've had and I would be shocked if it we had used the same 1-7 more than twice.

I posted on redvee yesterday that I sort of feel like we just need to get through these next two games best we can. Two tough games, 4 points would be huge for us. Then use the week off to dust ourselves off and start again for the business end. We have 17 days I think between Warrington next Thursday and Toulouse on 4th June so it feels like a good opportunity for us, albeit a break we obviously didn't want! If we can get a good run going from June onwards with just Dodd missing then we will still be favourites in my eyes. But we need Hopoate and Grace to get fit and stay fit and Lomax to be on the field as much as possible too.

There’s no doubt things are tougher on the injury front this season for Saints, then they have been for a few years now. None of us can deny that (although it’s still not been close to crisis point). Going in to the season with a lack of halfback cover looked risky for Saints. If they could go back I’m sure they’d have chosen one of Hopoate and Hurrell and used the spare spot for a back up option in the halves.