Admittedly I have only seen him play against Leeds...but that lad is class: a fantastic halfback. Love his wide range of abilities and confidence to try them

You can always tell the best players in RL by determining who opposition fans would really covet. Hardaker, Watkins, Hall, Cuthbertson of course, but for me Williams and Bateman come into that category too. Perhaps Farrell too - he too tonight was superb for you guys.

The O'Loughlin penalty killed us, you just knew Leeds would score off the back of it.

Cas fan here, thought you were very unlucky with some of the calls tonight. Bateman has gone up in my estimation all season but i've never been a fan of Faz till tonight. But he really stepped up to the plate tonight and actually looked a future captain. Lockers has been a great servant but surely this has to be his last playing season and whilst he always seems to give 100% a genuine trophy winning team needs better than Matty at half back.

Williams is class - should be in the England team - he is the future at stand off, that is from a Leeds fan

It's bin day for me on Monday, what colour bin does Matty Smith go in?

Haha I agree and bloody Tomkins gelling and mossop can go in the bin as well

I honestly wonder what goes through some fans minds. Is it prejudice against people that possibly they don't like or are they just incapable of weighing up all the facts before they engage thier fingers on a keyboard?

Gelling has just spent 8 weeks on the sidelines. Before that he was in scintillating form and was one of the form backs in the comp. Now he's back and is struggling and idiots want him binning?

Joel is a similar story - picked up some decent early form which was killed when he had to cover for the above mentioned Gelling injury. He actually showed a return to form last week but again needs time.

Swapping and changing the side at the end of every season helps no one. Given the fact that theseems two guys are two of the best in the league makes knee jerk reactions laughable.

No mate it's not just those four we have more dead weight bang average players also I'll include to that list Crosby, Powell, Patrick, tautai. If you believe all eight are good enough for a top team looking to win trophies then you have seriously cherry and white tinted glasses on

Saints won the league last year but you could probably pick 8 duffers in their team.

Yep... 8 from 12.. hehehe

Some of them are but I certainly don't think that Joel and Gelling fall into that category. They are both very good players and easily good enough to play big rones in a team looking to win trophies.

Joel especially who gets a hard time (even more so on the other board) is 'a Wigan standard' player. He'd walk into any other team in the league imo.

It's alright then we should accept average standards and players

Fair enough that's your opinion but I think the lot are average and aren't good enough

I don't think many would disagree with that, but thats down to external factors, and one in particular..... MONEY!

If i was an RL player, i would be seriously considering my options. And i might even suggest, that IL is looking to a time when professional RL in this country collapses in on itself. The Wigan brand could leave RL and go to Union, no other SL team could.

I wasn't trying to kickoff so to speak by that statement, it just frustrates me how the game is going, but I guess I should thank the rfl for that