Personally, I think Saints are back as contenders for the league. They are getting some good players back - AW is huge for them.

Obviously a lot of their big names don't have years in front of them, but for this season - there's no reason they can't go all the way. They know how to wins this could be their last hurrah.

They were awful SP. Couldn't score in a brothel and had Deon Cross not forgotten how to slide in for a try in wet weather (what the hell was he thinking?!?) I doubt anyone would be suggesting Saints were anything other than in freefall.

Whilst our attack was poor there is a lot of mitigation. No Welsby, Lomax and then Dodd goes off during the game. We've seen how Wigan look less fluid without French..

Paasi goes off in the first 20 mins and Walmsley is playing his first game in 16 weeks.

Also 9 times out of 10 that ridiculous Hankinson try isn't given and granted I haven't watched the game back yet but there are a few saying Ritson's try should've been given too. Thats a big point swing.

The other point to consider is that Salford are no also rans anymore. They were a Sneyd brain fart away from beating Wigan this season.

At the moment its all about results for us rather than performances

They've got injuries - just like we've had them. You could say we were in free fall after the Wire game.

IF they get bodies back, then they'll be contenders. Experience and knowing how to win the big game, can't just learned overnight.

Your attack has been poor for a couple of seasons no matter who is playing Stu. You were critical of Wigan's fluidity against Leigh on Tuesday yet we scored 22 points in the first half without French, Field and O'Neill. How on earth do you offer mitigation for Saints awful attack just 2 days later with similar disruption? Saints could only dream of scoring 22 points against either Leigh or Salford, nevermind in one half! More pertinently, you once again couldn't score against 12 men! Wigan scored twice when Leigh were down to 12 yet you somehow turned that into a negative! As I said on that thread: I bet you wish Saints knew how to score against 12...or even 11...

All the decisions were correct Stu, although I thought the Hankinson try would have been disallowed given it had gone up as no try. That said if Cross knew how to slide in for a try*.....


*What has happened to this way of finishing btw? He was 2 yards from the line in wet weather

We lost 2 games and still sat joint top of the league with a game in hand! Hardly free fall! Had Saints lost yesterday that would have been 6 of the last 7. Not even remotely comparable.

They had as close to a full strength pack as they're going to get this year playing last night and at times struggled to make yards. They relied on Salford errors (of which there were many) to get them up field. Moreover, of their 'missing' backs, only Welsby has been in any sort of form and even he hasn't been great. Lomax has been a liability and Dodd (who people seem to be forgetting actually played last night) has been in terrible form for 2 years, to the point he was dropped only a couple of weeks ago . I hope they do get Lomax and Dodd back for the end of the season because it will make them even worse!

Probably right MD. I've seen it a few times now though and he tries to stop to come inside for some bizarre reason when a simple 2 yard slide guarantees a try. I think he was saying the same to Sneyd post game.

My own take on this is that wingers are automatically looking for the spectacular dive that we've all become accustomed to and, when it's not on, look to cut inside. The slide over is becoming something of a forgotten art.

Two wins for Saints since Welsby has been out of the team, time to start a bad egg in the changing room rumour

You keep saying that Stu but there's more than one defender on the park. To get Moylan to miss one on one tackles you have to be at the right end of the field and be good enough to concentrate your attack at a perceived weakness. I'm not sure why his poor defending negates everything else we did right to get to that point. As I pointed out, we dominated in the forwards, were rock solid in defence and scored 22 points, all of which Saints were unable to do just a week or so previously. They still had Lam, Ipape, Asiata etc on the field but we're unable to score. The same attack scored at will against Saints. Moylan's poor defence has no bearing on that. And all that was without Field, French and O'Neil. Yet just days later you're offering Welsby and Lomax missing as mitigation despite Lomax having been God awful all season. I'm comparing and contrasting your two approaches to our games here Stu, that's all. It doesn't have any logic.

Just out of interest, what did you "do special" to score that Wigan didn't? Your best effort was a forward pass at the line from Burns (who, along with Robertson was very good btw)

We didn't. We scored basic tries as we have no attack, this has never been in question. I'm the first to point out when Wigan are excellent, HKR and Warrington in the CC two prime examples but no matter what you say I don't think you were that great against Leigh, I thought they were shambolic in that first half. Completing sets doesn't always translate into points. We had a very high completion rate in the first half last night but scored only one try.

Yes the facts are that you scored 22 first half points but I think they were easy points and you didn't have to work hard to get them that's all.

I think there was a big doubt about the Hankinson try, Ritson’s effort getting chalked off was the correct decision. It’s swings and roundabouts there are umpteen decisions that can be debated, none more so than a number of Saints players being offside following NM’s break and M’Bye’s subsequent try preventing tackle on Cross. Regarding Paasi he was the architect of his own downfall, not wearing the prescribed mouth guard.

I hope for your sake that is not right, Sailor is not in the class of Welsby.