So what you're saying is it's harder against the better teams than the lesser ones? Better go have a lie down after working that one out. You must be exhausted.

That's the challenge. We had moments in that game where we could have changed momentum significantly but, unlike Saints, didn't take them. The first bombed try for example. We then scored the next chance and could have been 10 up at that point (I know it isn't as simple as that, but you get my point). Even allowing for the bombed try we don't reset after scoring and immediately allow Saints to respond. Credit to them for that but equally that's an area of improvement we need to make. Then Batty going into touch on the first tackle when we were in a good attacking position and Saints coming all the way up the field to go ahead. These are all instances where we didn't challenge Saints to do something extraordinary in order to score. It's all fixable but we need to play for every minute of the 80.

Playing them as often as we will do this season will help the progression IMO. I don’t think Peet will let their heads drop as they seemed to under Lam and hopefully we just keep seeing improvements game on game. I think we need a couple of real quality additions in the outside backs to nail those moments you get but that’ll be for next year, so for this season it’s all about the players we have conditioning themselves to the intensify they need to reach to match them in an energy battle and you never know what could happen in a one off game like a semi or a final. The first thing I think we need to look at is making sure we have centres in the team who can nail a pass under pressure. I don’t think we’re a chance against them this season with a second rower and Bibby in the centres. We’re not going to go through the middle of them, so we need to make sure our skill is good enough on the edges.

Not trying to pour scorn on what you or Phuzzy are saying as you make some valid points. I agree that there is a lot of improvement in this Wigan side and Good Friday showed that. However not sure you can use that Saints performance as a barometer. If everything goes according to plan we will have Grace, Sironen and Matautia back for the semi final. That completely changes our left edge in both attack and defence. I'm not even including Hopoate in this argument.

The point I''m making is that our pack will be much better come the SF. Lets not forget also that Knowles only played 20 mins last Friday. So whilst you make pertinent points about your 5 props rotating well, our pack too should be even better in a couple of weeks.

Not really sure what you’re trying to point out that I don’t know already. Saints are a better side and were missing a few players (We were missing a few as well btw). I’m not overly concerned with the semi final, I’m talking how we improve over the next 12 months plus and close the gap. Getting anything from the semi would be a surprising bonus but hopefully we see some progress and we keep seeing that as we go along and keep playing you guys.

Apologies I've got the wrong end of the stick there.

Yeah I agree with what you are saying. I think Peet will bring about further improvements, I've been impressed with him both on and off the field.

No doubts mate. I have no issues with you saying you also have improvements in you, although I do think Dodd will be a loss to you as Tommy could be for us depending on today's prognosis. I'm hopeful Tommy will return for us though.

The fact that there is improvement in Saints doesn't really affect what I'm saying though. Had we performed anywhere near our best, maybe even with a few season best performances in there too, and come up very short then the picture would be a lot less hopeful. However we were so far away from that with perhaps only Tommy even performing at the better end of his potential, that I don't really think we learned a lot from Friday beyond what we already knew: Saints are currently the better side and we won't beat you with anything less than our best.

Let me just say this though; I said before the game that the result will not define our season, win or lose. That's still the case. I understand how, as Saints fans, this feels like Wigan can't beat you but that isn't the case. Enjoy the result and the bragging rights by all means but to paraphrase a famous saying "the reports of this season's death have been greatly exaggerated". There's still a long way to go and a lot of rugby still to be played.

From a purely forward point of view and from what I'm hearing from my mate who works at Wigan, Harvey Hill is the next cab off the rank and potentially will be better than Havard and any of the younger props by a distance.

hes been excellent, has been since the scholarship

I like the look of the other young prop, Max Wood, as well. Will also be interesting to see how Nsemba develops.

Sironen banned again, Saints might as well have kept hold of Bentley and saved a quota spot

Be interested to see our forwards stats, that was the worst I have seen Mago from a looking knackered perspective, he was blowing within 5 minutes of being on the field and couldn’t get back to the line, I understand this is the norm for him and he has put up pretty good numbers at times but if anything he seems to be going backwards. Is he not taking it serious over here? I am sure when we signed him somebody was posting his numbers from the NRL and NSW cup and he was doing pretty long minutes and putting up big numbers. On the flip side Kaide Ellis (who at the time I thought looked an uninspiring signing) I thought was very good again and seems to potentially be the front row we have been crying out for years for who can go about his business fairly unspectacularly but do decent minutes and churn out around 100m a game.

Not being funny but why would you chose his 3rd game in a week, and after playing decent minutes in his second in 3 days on Monday, to question his fitness? Ellis did go well but he's just returned from a 6 week rest!

Agreed. And again we brought Mago on around 32mins when we dropped our intensity (Smith try aside), giving him only a few minutes before the Salford pack could regain some energy at halftime.

Ellis - 17 carries, 115m, 23 tk
Smithies - 15 carries, 93m, 27 tk
Havard - 15 carries, 97m, 30 tk
Mago - 4 carries, 36m, 13 tk
Byrne - 7 carries, 28m, 26 tk