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Club Coach | 686 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Cruncher="Cruncher"I think that more accurately sums it up than "are IL and KR deluded?"
I'll never understand these Wigan fans - especially the ones who "aren't bashing IL and KR" (honest!) - who can never seem to resist having a personal dig at the club's brass.
I mean, seriously. Where else do people think that someone like KR in particular, might be focussed?
AL took the coaching reins in the midst of chaos: the Edwards betrayal followed by COVID. And he still got us to a final. On that basis, how much of an 'obvious mistake' was it to award him an extension?
How much foresight did IL and KR genuinely lack to not anticipate the collapse of AL's team last year? No one else I know saw it coming, either.'"
I am not only referring to the actual performances under Lam.
The club have started making changes off the field such as the fans forum, community engagement, bringing in Wane so that Radlinski can focus on the business side.
My post is more aimed at why the above has only just started?
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International Board Member | 1898 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2003 | 22 years | |
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| We do have the benefit of Field showing what he can do now though - which can make both French & Field look a little bit of a luxury - but at the time, not resigning French would have been madness as he was our only bright spark in a otherwise lacklustre team.
These two are the players who get fans on their feet and excited about coming to a game - I don't see them as being exclusive and they can play together in the same team - I think we could have got another prop without sacrificing one of them. I do think French at FB, Field in the halves, Cust at 9 is by far our best combination - fits in players who are a threat in their more natural positions without sticking French/Field to the wing where neither are suited.
Where we have got our recruitment and strategy wrong is too many of the same type of players - as others have said.
Difficult decisions but these were the type of decision we got right in the 80's - letting nice people go who were not quite good enough or had been here too long. One or two of our young props need to be let go, Isa shouldn't have been resigned, Zak on the wing is looking like an expensive waste of talent - not his best position and probably paying him too much to be a bit part player.
This could have funded another prop and we have a far stronger balanced squad whilst keeping both Field and french.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5564 | Wigan Warriors |
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Nov 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote sergeant pepper="sergeant pepper"We did sign re-sign our best and most creative player. We bagged Hastings.
You also can't use hindsight to say how much we missed him. No one knew Field was going to get injured like he did. In a salary capped world, you can't have that luxury.
I'll call it right now for this season btw - I'd prefer another prop or 2nd row to be here than French.'"
Couldn't disagree more. French and Field in the same side is exactly the type of team we should be aiming to have at Wigan. Facilitate it by all means by surrounding them with the right players but it shouldn't be an either/or. Not resigning French when there are any amount of players we could reasonably lose before him would be criminal.
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Club Coach | 686 | No Team Selected |
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Jan 2006 | 20 years | |
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| Quote sergeant pepper="sergeant pepper"We did sign re-sign our best and most creative player. We bagged Hastings.
You also can't use hindsight to say how much we missed him. No one knew Field was going to get injured like he did. In a salary capped world, you can't have that luxury.
I'll call it right now for this season btw - I'd prefer another prop or 2nd row to be here than French.'"
We resigned Hastings?
Wasn’t he on a two year deal and that’s what he stayed for?
It’s only after seeing Fields performances that people are mentioning not re signing French. Everyone at the time wanted it to happen.
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International Chairman | 5392 | Wakefield Trinity |
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Dec 2001 | 24 years | |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"Couldn't disagree more. French and Field in the same side is exactly the type of team we should be aiming to have at Wigan. Facilitate it by all means by surrounding them with the right players but it shouldn't be an either/or. Not resigning French when there are any amount of players we could reasonably lose before him would be criminal.'"
I agree that there's others I'd move on before French, but you can only look at who's ooc.
As with most things - look at Saints. They decided not to get into a bidding war for Coote as they already had a very good #1. That's allowed them to strengthen other areas and, as a whole, they are stronger. Coote might have been the better FB, but the players they've been able to bring in massively outweighs that.
We don't need two quality FB's in the side.
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Player Coach | 5564 | Wigan Warriors |
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Nov 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote sergeant pepper="sergeant pepper"I agree that there's others I'd move on before French, but you can only look at who's ooc.
As with most things - look at Saints. They decided not to get into a bidding war for Coote as they already had a very good #1. That's allowed them to strengthen other areas and, as a whole, they are stronger. Coote might have been the better FB, but the players they've been able to bring in massively outweighs that.
We don't need two quality FB's in the side.'"
You're right, we don't need 2 quality fullbacks in the side in principle but it's good to have 2 who can play to such a high standard in such a pivotal position to cover injury, loss of form and, in the present climate, suspensions.
We do, however, need 2 quality players in the side (well, more than 2 obviously, but you get the point I'm making). The question is not should we have one or the other but where do we fit both in the side. Both players can play multiple positions. Field 1 and 6 (and possibly wing) and French fullback and wing without question. I would argue that neither half nor wing are settled in our team so there is more than enough scope to fit them both in.
Tommy/Field halves with Cust at 9 or Cust/Field halves with Tommy spelling hooker both look potentially better than we currently have. We already know that French has the ability to be among the best in the league from fullback.
If you don't want to move Field then French and Marshall on the wings gives us pace to burn. There is no substitute for pace as we've seen from Field already this year.
In both instances we have a top quality 1 to cover injuries etc. I'm not sure what the downside is to be honest.
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International Star | 4470 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"You're right, we don't need 2 quality fullbacks in the side in principle but it's good to have 2 who can play to such a high standard in such a pivotal position to cover injury, loss of form and, in the present climate, suspensions.
We do, however, need 2 quality players in the side (well, more than 2 obviously, but you get the point I'm making). The question is not should we have one or the other but where do we fit both in the side. Both players can play multiple positions. Field 1 and 6 (and possibly wing) and French fullback and wing without question. I would argue that neither half nor wing are settled in our team so there is more than enough scope to fit them both in.
Tommy/Field halves with Cust at 9 or Cust/Field halves with Tommy spelling hooker both look potentially better than we currently have. We already know that French has the ability to be among the best in the league from fullback.
If you don't want to move Field then French and Marshall on the wings gives us pace to burn. There is no substitute for pace as we've seen from Field already this year.
In both instances we have a top quality 1 to cover injuries etc. I'm not sure what the downside is to be honest.'"
I think the only downside is what their salary does to the cap and what that means for other positions.
If we spend £300k (both marquee) on Field and French then can we manage to fit quality players into the side in the other key positions like 6,7,8,9,10 etc and still manage to get a strong squad or do we end up like Warrington who have a good 1-17 on paper but crumble after that?
One thing I will say about our recruitment/squad is that when we have been missing 7 and 8 players at a time we are still able to put out a team that in most cases is able to compete and has even won a run of games. Not every club can do that and TBH I don't actually think any can and I include Saints in that as shown pretty much every time they play a weak team. How many sides were unable to field a team last year and forfeited? We played three games missing 11 players and won 2 of them.
We aren't going to have a squad of world beaters, nobody is in a salary capped sport, so you have to balance the money as best you can and throwing massive money at two players that both play the same position doesn't seem the right way to do it. If we lose one of French/Field and bring in a big forward to replace them then that is better than having both of them playing behind a crap pack.
Of course, if we manage to keep both of them and spend marquee money elsewhere then it's a piece of absolute brilliance.
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Player Coach | 5564 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote Egg Chasing="Egg Chasing"I think the only downside is what their salary does to the cap and what that means for other positions.
If we spend £300k (both marquee) on Field and French then can we manage to fit quality players into the side in the other key positions like 6,7,8,9,10 etc and still manage to get a strong squad or do we end up like Warrington who have a good 1-17 on paper but crumble after that?
One thing I will say about our recruitment/squad is that when we have been missing 7 and 8 players at a time we are still able to put out a team that in most cases is able to compete and has even won a run of games. Not every club can do that and TBH I don't actually think any can and I include Saints in that as shown pretty much every time they play a weak team. How many sides were unable to field a team last year and forfeited? We played three games missing 11 players and won 2 of them.
We aren't going to have a squad of world beaters, nobody is in a salary capped sport, so you have to balance the money as best you can and throwing massive money at two players that both play the same position doesn't seem the right way to do it. If we lose one of French/Field and bring in a big forward to replace them then that is better than having both of them playing behind a crap pack.
Of course, if we manage to keep both of them and spend marquee money elsewhere then it's a piece of absolute brilliance.'"
I don't know the finances or what those 2 players are on so I can't really comment other than to say neither are marquee at the moment (?) and couldn't be next year either as Bateman has a marquee contract. If we can't afford both then that's another matter, of course but, as a principal, we should be looking to get as many top players in as possible and both certainly fall into that category.
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International Star | 4470 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"I don't know the finances or what those 2 players are on so I can't really comment other than to say neither are marquee at the moment (?) and couldn't be next year either as Bateman has a marquee contract. If we can't afford both then that's another matter, of course but, as a principal, we should be looking to get as many top players in as possible and both certainly fall into that category.'"
Agree, but you would think if the NRL are sniffing around them that we would need to pay big bucks to keep them because they currently hold the advantage when it comes to wages. If the marquee spots are gone then we need to count their full salaries on the cap which creates another problem.
It isn't as simple as keeping a player because he's quality otherwise we'd be signing world class players like it's 1992.
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Player Coach | 5564 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote Egg Chasing="Egg Chasing"Agree, but you would think if the NRL are sniffing around them that we would need to pay big bucks to keep them because they currently hold the advantage when it comes to wages. If the marquee spots are gone then we need to count their full salaries on the cap which creates another problem.
It isn't as simple as keeping a player because he's quality otherwise we'd be signing world class players like it's 1992.'"
Of course I understand we work to a salary cap but then so does everyone else and they seem to be able to do it. Catalans, Saints and Warrington all have plenty players who will be on big money. How much do you reckon it took to keep Walmsley, Lomax, Roby, Coote etc at the club last year? And don't even get me started on Warrington! 
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International Chairman | 5392 | Wakefield Trinity |
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| French and Field are worth marquee money at FB. There's been nothing to say they'd be worth that playing at 6. Surely it's a better option to get an out and out HB and pay them?
Again, like Saints, why would they have kept Coote and paid Welsby FB money to sit on the wing. It makes no sense.
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Administrator | 21315 | St. Helens |
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Jul 1999 | 26 years | |
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| Quote Phuzzy="Phuzzy"Of course I understand we work to a salary cap but then so does everyone else and they seem to be able to do it. Catalans, Saints and Warrington all have plenty players who will be on big money. How much do you reckon it took to keep Walmsley, Lomax, Roby, Coote etc at the club last year? And don't even get me started on Warrington!
'"
Lomax/Roby/Walmsley all joined low and home grown rarely are top earners.
Coote was released for the very reason that we could not afford his wage request.
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