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| Quote King Johns II="King Johns II"TL as never had a good kicking game and doubt he was brought in just for that.....so I would look at Wane and recruitment if this does end up costing us.
Assists for a scrum half are not everything if we was scoring the majority of our tries around the width of the posts I would expect his assists to be a lot higher. However if you look at our tries this year they have been in corners or down the flanks so the assist will be by the centre / second row or Williams. This is also the reason why Escare successful kicking % this year as been around 60'"
Indeed. Recruitment seems to be a committee affair between Wane, Radlinski and Lenegan.
We have always scored a lot out wide so the kicking stats are comparable. Smith was 75% last year (Richards was 75% in 2013), Escare is 60% this year so far.
George plays on the left, Tommy on the right. George has eight assists, Tommy one.
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International Star | 1439 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2014 | 11 years | |
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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"It was obvious to me what the last two performances have lacked. I said it often enough last season and I'm saying it again. Wigan fans have consistently underrated Matty Smith.
Tommy may tackle well (although not on Friday) and his passing is passable
Now I like Tommy, always have, but we miss Matty terribly. We would have won both those games with him in the team. Matty gave the team the organisation that was missing on Friday.
Tommy doesn't organise. He isn't vocal, and what is just as bad, his kicking is woeful. We looked good when we had a full team out but when we needed our big players to stand up, it didn't happen. The best performances on Friday were from the fringe players; Davies, Escare, Gregson. The props (especially Clubb, Flower and FPN) stunk the place out and that never helps a half back but I'm afraid I'm expecting more from Tommy. When McIlorum (if he ever does) gets back I might be tempted to try Powell at Half Back, and put Tommy on the bench as back up hooker.
Thoughts?'"
I was just gonna ask about this actually, as we are playing you on Friday I was wondereing how your halves were going as I havent seen much of you this year.
I didnt think you would go too well this year as I didnt see either Williams or Leuluai (or Tomkins) as dominant halves who could run a game or get you around the field.
So I was surprised when you started so well, especially beating Cronulla.
Who has been doing the job of a dominant half and running the games for you? Williams or Leuluai?
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International Star | 2795 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote leedsnsouths="leedsnsouths"I was just gonna ask about this actually, as we are playing you on Friday I was wondereing how your halves were going as I havent seen much of you this year.
I didnt think you would go too well this year as I didnt see either Williams or Leuluai (or Tomkins) as dominant halves who could run a game or get you around the field.
So I was surprised when you started so well, especially beating Cronulla.
Who has been doing the job of a dominant half and running the games for you? Williams or Leuluai?'"
I wouldn't describe either as dominant to be honest. Tommy is taking responsibility for guiding us round the park more and freeing Williams up to play more freely and off the cuff more. He's playing outstandingly well and wreaking havoc at times.
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International Star | 1439 | No Team Selected |
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Sep 2014 | 11 years | |
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| Quote Bigredwarrior="Bigredwarrior"I wouldn't describe either as dominant to be honest. Tommy is taking responsibility for guiding us round the park more and freeing Williams up to play more freely and off the cuff more. He's playing outstandingly well and wreaking havoc at times.'"
You think youll win Friday?
Im not sure myself but if we play well and rip in I think we could win by 8
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Player Coach | 4722 | No Team Selected |
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Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
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| Quote leedsnsouths="leedsnsouths"I was just gonna ask about this actually, as we are playing you on Friday I was wondereing how your halves were going as I havent seen much of you this year.
I didnt think you would go too well this year as I didnt see either Williams or Leuluai (or Tomkins) as dominant halves who could run a game or get you around the field.
So I was surprised when you started so well, especially beating Cronulla.
Who has been doing the job of a dominant half and running the games for you? Williams or Leuluai?'"
Tommy, frees williams up to go play off the cuff rugby when it suits
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International Star | 1235 | Wigan Warriors |
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Dec 2015 | 10 years | |
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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"Yes, you are right. But that isn't the point I am making.
We would have won both of those games last year with Matty in the team. Tommy's poor kicking and lack of organisation will cost us in close games.'"
Have to say i admired Smith for everything in particular he did last season and i cant help but think Saints will be a threat with him over there
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Club Captain | 332 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"I'd agree that we are looking better. I put that down to Williams, Farrell, Gildart and Burgess on the left edge. We look no different on the right edge.
Every kicker in the league hoofs it straight to the full back when they are kicking from 20 or 30 yards out. Matty is no different in that respect, but he is better when we are going forward, much better than Tommy.
I've been delighted by Escare, But his goal kicks are not as accurate. He has missed 12 out of 30 that's 60% success. Quite comfortably worse that Smith last season, who kicked 83 out of 110 that's 75%. Sometimes the figures (reality) tell a different story from what you've 'seen'.
Just out of interest I looked up Pat Richards' rate in 2013 - any guesses? (Yes 75%!!!)'"
I'd say it's quite unfair to be branding Tommy as unorganised but saying we're playing better because of George. The only reason George has the freedom to play is because Tommy is taking control, doing the basics and giving George the opportunity to play like he can.
I also think it's quite unfair to judge Escare's kicking against Matty's based on a few games. Not sure of the statistics but I'm sure Smith didn't start out with a great rate, but he improved... like Escare hopefully will.
Saying that, Matty was great for Wigan and it wasn't good to see him go.
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International Star | 2795 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote leedsnsouths="leedsnsouths"You think youll win Friday?
Im not sure myself but if we play well and rip in I think we could win by 8'"
We started the season well with just Sam Tomkins, McIllorum and Manfridi out. We looked slick and well organised. 6 weeks in and v Hull we were missing Tomkins, Manfredi, Gildart, Burgess, Tierney, McIllorum, Sutton, Barmteman, Farrell and O'Loughlin and clearly we weren't as good as previous weeks. That said, it's no excuse and we're we're very close to beating a strong Hull FC.
Will we win on Friday? Not sure to be honest. Leeds hitting some form and won 3 on the bounce. They were always going to be much improved on last year but we may have Farrell, Sutton and Gildart back which will certainly help. I suspect your back line may just give you the edge but I reckon it'll be a very close game.
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Player Coach | 507 | Wigan Warriors |
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Jan 2008 | 18 years | |
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| Quote Bigredwarrior="Bigredwarrior"The assist is an unfair stat IMO. Just because the centre makes the last pass they get the credit but the real damage may have been done by another player in the middle of the field.
Our attack this season has been far more slick than in previous years but we have consistently (for years) scored more tries out wide due to our attacking structure.
'"
Exactly my point so is why I said cant really compare stats for assists between Smith / Tommy / Williams
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Player Coach | 507 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote Aboveusonlypie="Aboveusonlypie"Indeed. Recruitment seems to be a committee affair between Wane, Radlinski and Lenegan.
We have always scored a lot out wide so the kicking stats are comparable. Smith was 75% last year (Richards was 75% in 2013), Escare is 60% this year so far.
George plays on the left, Tommy on the right. George has eight assists, Tommy one.'"
We have always been better attacking from right to left its how Pat Richards scored so many tries. George assists this year have been kicks because at present it seems he kicks behind the line or attacks line himself.
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International Star | 1979 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2012 | 13 years | |
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| Quote WARRIOR5="WARRIOR5"I'd say it's quite unfair to be branding Tommy as unorganised but saying we're playing better because of George. The only reason George has the freedom to play is because Tommy is taking control, doing the basics and giving George the opportunity to play like he can.
I also think it's quite unfair to judge Escare's kicking against Matty's based on a few games. Not sure of the statistics but I'm sure Smith didn't start out with a great rate, but he improved... like Escare hopefully will.
Saying that, Matty was great for Wigan and it wasn't good to see him go.'"
Yes, I'd agree with almost everything you say mate. I have always liked Tommy as a player, but I think that the people who bagged Matty last year are blind to Tommy's deficiencies.
I think Matty's place kicking was average at best. I do think that the love-in for Morgan is partly down to the fact that he has exceeded expectations wildly. However his kicking from the tee is poor, not even average which was all that Matty was. Definitely room for improvement, which I hope he does, because it looks like he will be getting a lot of practice.
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International Star | 2795 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote King Johns II="King Johns II"Exactly my point so is why I said cant really compare stats for assists between Smith / Tommy / Williams'"
I agree although I have no issue comparing position for position. Tommy and Matty are both scrum half playing in basically the same structure. I was one of those happy to see Smith go and be replaced by Tommy. Smith tried hard but beyond that lacked ability. He's slow, has poor passing accuracy, never takes the line on, he's predictable, got dragged in defensively, and the majority of his long licks went straight to a winger or full back.
Tommy is different player altogether. He passes better, he's quicker, runs better, takes the line on and he's really guiding us around the park. His defence is far superior to Smith's and it's no coincidence our attack is much slicker this season. Tommy is controlling games and freeing up Williams to play what he sees and cause havoc.
I wouldn't swap Tommy for Smith even in my worst nightmare!
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