I'd consider paying him up after tonight (working out some sort of package). He is here for a pension, there's no point kidding ourselves! We haven't let somebody take us for a ride like this for years but this guy is.

He appalled me tonight when Cas scored that last try.

Wiliams has got play 7 and Hampshire 6.
SW has got give Williams a run of matches. Like you say he's done nothing wrong and SW gave him a starting number so he should at least give the guy 5 or 6 consecutive matches to prove himself.

Where does it come from that it's Wanes fault? And the atmosphere he's created drives these guys away?

It's cash! Plain and simple!! Leeds keep their players because they're paid what they're worth. I'm not throwing salary cap muck at Leeds here but in truth they're probably paying players 'slightly more' then the rest but if they can afford it then why not.

Don't kid yourself players leave Wigan due to the 'atmosphere' and stay at Leeds for the love. Go and watch a DVD of the magic weekend last year if you think those Wigan lads are unhappy under Wanes methods.

In terms of Wigans performances, I think they dropped when ST left. His absence in the backline can't be underestimated as he was the perfect player coming in on the arc. Wigans attacking structure created space on the edges and who else would you want capitalising on that? Josh Charnley scored a lot of tries off the back of his work.

I also think it is a mistake not playing Hampshire at 6. The kid is a future superstar but not at full back where he is left exposed.

Your dominance a few years back came from an uncompromising pack, controlling halves and a star player exploiting the space that the first 2 had made. Whilst the squad isn't vastly weaker, I think all those areas have lost a bit of potency.

Well, if that's true, and if reports of the offer to Joe Burgess are true, then Wigan are managing the cap really badly (Bowen's wage, a million middling props).

I don't think there's any salary cap muck to throw at Leeds. Hall stays for less than he'd get in the NRL because he's happy at the club. Maybe he's just a homebody and that's lucky for us, but maybe there's something about what Leeds offer in player welfare/development/education too.

DVD of Magic Weekend? Pro sportsmen desperately want to win the game they're playing in shock. That doesn't show anything positive or negative about their general employment at Wigan.

It started the day Madge said he was leaving. Wane is likeable to Wigan fans because of his history but sadly he's a limited coach who's simply too obsessed with youth.

I fear he's a Brian Kidd i.e. the perfect number 2 but lacking something for the top job.

I think tonight has proved that Powell is the best English coach in the game.

For a Saints fan that's a pretty accurate summary!

Wigan remind me of Bradford and their decline. A coach cines in and revolutionises then, then the next coach who learned from him tries to emulate him without advancing with the game and gradually the team falls to bits.

I always though Wane was a poor choice of coach as he never seemed smart enough but I was happy to be proven wrong, I think now we are fully out of the Maguire influence and the team is suffering.


I don't like the Wigan mentality Wane has, it's too insular. We need the best team we can put in the field not a team full of local lads.

The game plan we are using this year is one that should be employed by a big side, Wane identified we need a big side........he recruits small players.

Players like Farrell are becoming our weakness croud favourites local lads on big money but not performing. I'd swap Farrell for Vea or Greenwood in a heartbeat.

Finally in my opinion the squad has no balance. Clearly Wane has opted for strength in depth rather than quality, and that is killing us.

Very very harsh and this eulogy of Maguire at the moment is becoming ridiculous. His second season ended in a damp squib even with a substantially improved squad. We lost twice on the bounce to saints in the play offs and at no time did we look like we had any inkling on how to change the game when we were very much second best. How many kids did he bring through????
Agree with your last sentence.

They're all happy to stay at Leeds for the love of the club. I don't buy it but maybe I'm a cynic. Like I say I feel there's a 'little extra' in the pay packet but you can afford it so why not.

So a DVD of magic doesn't prove the lads at Wigan are happy to play for Wane...fair enough. How do you proof lads leaving is down to him as you made out?

You can't and I can't but our squad certainly hasn't looked unhappy under Wane these past few years. If that's all been eroded in one off season then fair enough but I don't see it.

Yep and he's gone downhill since then as well, so your comment is justified.

Are we forgetting that Shaun Wane won the double less than 2 years ago? I know we were hammered tonight but lets not go overboard with such nonsense as he's 'limited' or 'the players don't want to play for him'. The first is simple conjecture and knee jerk reaction, the second is unfounded nonsense.

The same things people are criticizing in this thread are the same things Wigan's success has been built on the last 5 years or so; a good, talented crop of Wigan born and bred lads, with a couple others from overseas and other clubs sprinkled in.

We showed very limited glimpses tonight that Wigan can trouble teams when it clicks. It was the same against Hull KR, for the period before and after the break we were almost unplayable. We have a good, young team. A team capable to beat anyone on their day, a couple of bad results doesn't change that.

Don't forget we've got a new half back partnership this year and our inspirational captain is out for a month or so. Look at Saints tonight, they struggled against a poor Wakefield side [A side that was murdered by Widnes 5 days ago], albeit they won, but they haven't performed anywhere near their potential, and probably won't until they get their first choice 6 & 7 back.

I can honestly say I'm not worried. The last couple of performances remind me of the 3 or 4 games between the CC final and grand final in 2013. Go back and watch those games and see the lack of effort and disjointedness of the team. Something tells me we're holding back, because we're going to have to go full tilt between August and October. I might be wrong, but I'll wait and see how we front up against Leeds & Saints in the next month before I go into crisis mode.

I agree.

Fair summary for me ..... in addition to the player retention I also have the following reservations:

1) I'm afraid IL is far too conservative. I don't want to be too critical of IL, he has worked hard to drag this club up from the mess it was in. IMO he's a decent bloke at heart (the way he tried to help Hock, for example) but I think he needs to be more speculative. I remembering him saying (at a fans forum) we missed out on Michael Dobson by £25k per season to HKR - I just wonder how many more trophies (and the resultant cashflow/profits) we have missed out on by not spending that extra £25k? That being said and to be fair to IL he has also pulled off some cracking signings - George Carmont for example.

2) Its time to get to grips with our current approach to coaching. Like most fans I know, we agree that we appear to be becoming a team of louts. Its easy to play against Wigan - wind 'em up and Tomkins, Farrell, etc. will provide you with a ready stream of penalties. This reflects on the coach - if it's not our the coaches tactics then the coach has to drop the perpetrators - either way the coach is in charge of the situation. Wane needs to develop as a coach and quickly.

Oh well, better get my scarf out of the bin, find the season ticket I threw with it and be ready for next Friday.