Why would the fans get behind or cheer the half ar$ed effort that we are currently seeing?

I've thought this for a while but i'm sick to death of three issues that, imo, have risen to the forefront under Wane;

1- This might not be to everyone's likening but i'm sick of watching weakened sides full of kids. If i wanted to watch the academy then i'd go and see them. I'm paying to see the 1st team play and that's who i expect to see turn out. By all means drop the occasional young talent in but i don't want to see a raft of them in the side at one time.

2 - Our effort and commitment in defence. What happened to the nasty defence that we saw week in, week out under Madge? I used to love watching opposition teams getting smashed into the turf tackle after tackle, set after set and game after game. We had a real nasty streak in us which i don't think is there anymore.

3- Wane quotes in the media whether that's about how tough training was, how hard he is to please, how poor certain players have been, how he'd like to coach in the NRL or how quiet the fans are. I wish he'd just button it and keep it in house. If he's not happy with how the players are performing then flog them, drop them or get rid of them but the rest of the world doesn't need to know about it.

The 'Brigantes' were never banned, a couple of people that attached themselves to the group got bans from the DW (but not from away games), the others finished for other reasons.

Most of the people I know personally, many of whom have been going for decades.

It's not the only problem for sure, but it's surely plain as mustard that we are never going to reconstruct a Wigan dynasty in the old style as long as we are constantly on the verge of losing exciting young players - you can say goodbye to Taylor and Charnley next season, and maybe Shaun Wane too.

If you don't think that's a cause for some disenchantment among fans, then I admire your optimism. But I do agree there are many other factors well beyond our control.

I agree with the point that seeing 5 or 6 established players leaving every season is disheartening, and I think this is the major reason for the steady decline in ST ticket numbers and average attendance over the the last couple of seasons. I don't personally think it's something a lot of fans are considering when they are in the stadium watching a game, however. Our home games now seem to be made up of dull wins against the lesser teams and convincing defeats to the top teams, until this trend is bucked I can't see much improvement in the atmosphere.

We've been spoilt in recent years with success and obviously with a big bulk of players gone we're back in a rebuilding process again as the quality is nowhere near the same in certain positions, centres and props mainly for me.

Going back to the success we've had, we have also watched the old enemy dip in form over the recent seasons but they've slowly been building and that's why they are ahead of us and Warrington so far this season. They probably will finish higher than us in the league, whether or not they will win the GF is another question but they are certainly in a much more stable position than us and that's because they've had a couple years rebuilding where really this is our first. Although we're not playing particularly well at the moment we're still getting the results. We're just going to have to be patient for a while and see if we can step up another couple of gears.

Then I stand corrected but for gods sake let's get them back again.

if we win Friday no one will give a tuppence

Until the next god awful home performance, probably on Monday !

I fully agree with what you are saying about being in a rebuilding process.

Unfortunately the fact that we are in our current position is one the reasons for fans being peed off. We should NEVER have been allowed to slump into our current position. It was only 2010 when we had a world class coach, a quality assistant and a team brimming with quality young players set to put a decade of dominance in the history books.

For me it's then a kick in the teeth for Wane to come out with his comments. He should really hold his words and realise many of these fans have followed Wigan for decades. They've remained loyal through some of the poor Whelan years (06 springs to mind) and have recently got behind the side in record numbers.

Fans aren't muggs. They can see other clubs keeping hold of their best talent but yet the complete opposite happening at Wigan. Fans aren't going to be happy watching us go 10-0 down to London knowing that a few years ago we had a team that would rip them apart and smash them in defence.

The Wigan club should be looking more at themselves rather than slating their own fans.

the point of the SL is to make the play-offs and ensure that over the season you learn your best setup, and protect your best players for the play-offs.
Winning against London and learning that a few players are not up to it (Dudson) but others (Williams) are worth perservering with, is invaluable.

I dont want us to win the LLS and enter the play-offs with green backups and a word out 1st XIII

Bingo. You play to the system you're given. Under this system the best method is to rotate the squad through the year and prepare for the play offs and cup games. Next season will be different when we need to aim for top 2 (min 4th) rather than top 4 (min 8th) during the regular season

With the way the league is now the first 2/3 of the season mean very little. Form means nothing, you need Form for the last 5-6 games. We've don't it previous and so have Huddersfield, no point blasting away now only to burn out.