I watched quite a lot of the NRL. I don't think Saints will expect him to play massive minutes. We have Amor, LMS, Laffranchi, Soliola,Wilkin who will all play big minutes and the likes of Walmsley and Masoe will be impact players.

To say he has a niggling injury suggests it is something that has happened a few times and is becoming troublesome, it isn't. He has an injury and then he'll be back. That could have happened to literally anyone.

Saints pack is stronger and ours is built for the type of rugby played in the play offs and GF. Relentless power, quick ptb and the halves putting the opposition under pressure. with their quality kicking game. Hudds forwards look formidable again but a big question mark over Wire and Leeds packs.
Wire have lost Carvell, Cooper and biggest loss of all Morley who was their forward talisman and hardman. Leeds pack just seems to get older every year. Should anything happen to the exceptional Peacock they could end up in real trouble with the forwards left. Wire and Leeds both have great backs but if their forwards are not winning their battle they won't be that effective.

Niggling injury for me is one that is not a major injury but will cause a player problems. Big men and ankle injuries are a concern, him not being able to put a full pre season is a concern.

He looked to be blowing in the World Cup, that is not going to improve anytime soon. He seems to be the stereotypical Islander, who really has to work on his conditioning. Him being unable to do that is a blow.

I am sure he will have some good days as his carry is so strong, but physically he looks a total different animal to what he did at the Roosters 2 years ago when he was most effective. He was significantly leaner then. Unless Saints are patient with him and really work with him whilst I am sure he will catch the eye, he will be a target for the smaller men in attack.

Time will tell.

You could easily compare Warrington's "losses" with a squad losing Mossop, Harrison, Tuson, Lauaki and Powell (ok I admit the last two aren't really a loss).

The Warrington pack is still a very good unit: Hill, Higham, Asotasi, Waterhouse, Westwood, Grix with Wood, Monaghan, Harrison, Currie on the bench plus still in the squad from last season Dwyer, Riley and Laithwaite boosted further by the signing of Anthony England and the return from loan of Ben Evans.

I really struggle to see any question marks over that pack, where do you think it is weak? By the end of last season Morley and Carvell had been replaced as our frontline props by Hill and Wood.

For Saints I don't even see who would step-in at hooker if Roby suffers an injury again.

And what suggests that Saints won't work hard with him and be patient?

Hohaia probably.

I don't think Saints have the best conditioning team by ant stretch, but as I said time will tell.

For me the signs do not look good, but that is all it is at this stage. He may prove to be a valuable asset for you, he has the potential if kept in shape and used correctly to be, but as I said to start this exchange, he is a risky signing. All signings could be classed as risky but this guy is more so than most.

Whilst it may seem insignificant this ankle injury means he will miss almost the entire preseason running and powerlifting program, it's not a good start.

Although different in height to Feka he reminds me of him about 2 years in to his Wigan career. When Feka first came over he was in much better shape then Masoe was in the World Cup but he let himself go and piled weight on. He was still an effective runner but a poor defender and a luxury player. He then got fit but wasn't as powerful and he still struggled to do longer spells.

I could see Saints having similar issues with Masoe. Do you stick with the unfit luxury type player who'll cause havoc for 20-30 minutes a game or do you try and get him fit so he can do longer minutes but run the risk of his impact drastically dropping? It's all about balance I suppose. If Saints feel they have a couple of other props that can churn out huge minutes it may not be an issue but if they ever pick up a couple of injuries and he becomes 2nd/3rd choice prop then its dangerous.

It'll certainly be interesting watching how he goes.

Amor, Laffranchi and LMS will rotate as our starting props and be expected to do big minutes. I'm hearing Walmsley will also be expected to do longer stints than he did last year as he has worked had on his fitness. So Masoe will be used purely as an impact player. We all saw in the Samoa v NZ game how he can change the momentum of a game.

I think there's an element of you lot clutching at straws in order to have a pop at Saints in all honesty.

Calling it a risky signing when you've signed a guy who was described as being physically unable to carry on in the NRL is quite ironic.

Your posts are guaranteed to dispel any January gloom.



We don't need to clutch at straws.

We are the league and cup champions, having won the double with a young and still improving side. While we've lost a few players (as we did at the end of 2012) I'm happy with our recruitment.

I'm also happy for Saints players to talk about their "frightening" pack and for other people to big up Wire and Leeds.

We are Wigan and we do things differently. Wigan these days is a club that means business - actions speak louder than words, that is the Wigan way. That is the approach of IL, SW and SOL and I like it.

I expect Wigan to continue to do our talking on the pitch, at the business end of the season, when it matters. (And hopefully in the WCC!)

Absolutely nothing to do with the topic we are discussing but I'm glad you're happy.

Scary thing is our side is so young compared to most if not all SL teams and with more coming through each season. Hampshire will play a lot of minutes at FB this season to rest Bowen when needed. Most sides look at our side and think our pack seems light but RL is changing and the days of impact props is over. It was the nature of the Wire pack that won us the GF last season. Could not live with us and for them having technically 2 impact props who played almost 40+ minutes, that was too much and a quick mobile well controlled pack ground them. down.

The days of the old saying a good big un will always beat a good little un is changing. RL props have to be mobile and the squad needs covering players to multi task. Given 3 out of our 4 props did a number on Wire in the GF i would take our 4 over 80 minutes than any other set in SL. Taylor started last season as an impact prop but ended up as much more than a 10 minutes spell player.

Whilst Saints have an impact prop they do not have the impact that Bitcon has on a player and for all the bluster of people on here what Bitcon can do to a players fitness is remarkable.

As for the risk on Bowen the quote on his fitness will be proved either way this season but for me it was a nice way of the Cowboys telling their fans that they wanted him off the cap as they had a player on less money to cover him. And for Bowen to leave in a dignified manner. Though i would rather have Bowen at FB and risk him than any-other FB in SL. Risk yes but risk with Hampshire covering and needing game time its worth it.