FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Team for the derby |
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "Tommy hasn't really stood out at any point this year when playing at scrum half. I think his best game at 7 came at Bradford where he made use of some broken play. Every single game he's played in at 7 his kicking game has been absolutely appalling, probably the worst of any halfback anywhere in Super League and whenever the other halfback didn't perform Leuluai generally didn't either. He never provided any creativity, even with Deacon and Finch out it was left to O'Loughlin to play the role of a true halfback.'"
I think the words "In My Opinion" would be best added to the majority of those statements?
In my opinion, a Harry Sunderland winning scrum Half who's started 99% of his games for Wigan in that position is good enough for me.
As for his kicking game, I'm guessing our kicking game has been a hundred times better since he started the last 2/3 games at 9?
Seems strange to me then that IMO it's been absolutely no different.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "How confident are you lot going into this game?
Should be an absolute cracker - hope we come through reasonable unscathed (or as unscathed as you can from a derby!) for the Wire game the next week.
I quite fancy us to nick a win, but wouldn't be surprised by any result or scoreline.'"
We're very up and down, and not just from game to game. But minute to minute. We can go from looking like absolute world beaters, to clueless robots in the space of 5 minutes.
Saying that it's a derby so I'm sure we'll be up for it.
As for predicting a result. I think the two games already played between the sides this year, show it really is going to be a toss of a coin. I'm just hoping for dry weather so we can see the best the two sides have to offer.
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| Quote: Jukesays "I think the words "In My Opinion" would be best added to the majority of those statements?
In my opinion, a Harry Sunderland winning scrum Half who's started 99% of his games for Wigan in that position is good enough for me.
As for his kicking game, I'm guessing our kicking game has been a hundred times better since he started the last 2/3 games at 9?
Seems strange to me then that IMO it's been absolutely no different.'"
Surely it's a bit obvious that it's my opinion? I'm not going to be giving anyone else's.
I think our kicking game has been a bit better since he switched to 9 though. The kicks seem to find the ground a lot more which is always better than kicking short and straight to the fullback or winger. I'm not saying Leuluai hasn't been good at scrum half, he's been excellent there during his time at Wigan but I don't think he's been that good in the position this season. It's not just based on the fact that I don't think Leuluai has been as good this year, I think Mcllorum has been woeful in terms of attack with the exception of the game against Quins which would suggest an attacking threat at hooker is needed. I think Leuluai adds that attacking threat at hooker and has done better at hooker than scrum half.
All in my opinion of course.
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "Surely it's a bit obvious that it's my opinion? I'm not going to be giving anyone else's.
I think our kicking game has been a bit better since he switched to 9 though. The kicks seem to find the ground a lot more which is always better than kicking short and straight to the fullback or winger. I'm not saying Leuluai hasn't been good at scrum half, he's been excellent there during his time at Wigan but I don't think he's been that good in the position this season. It's not just based on the fact that I don't think Leuluai has been as good this year, I think Mcllorum has been woeful in terms of attack with the exception of the game against Quins which would suggest an attacking threat at hooker is needed. I think Leuluai adds that attacking threat at hooker and has done better at hooker than scrum half.
All in my opinion of course.'"
So what you seem to be saying is that we have a problem at Hooker? Not at Half back?
If that be the case then we have 2 x options
A/ Play Tommy at 9 for the Full 80
B/ Start with MM and move Tommy there after 30 or so as MM is not the right type of Hooker to be bringing on to provide some impact in there.
Don't tire Tommy out and have to being him off or move him to the HB's when he's knackered after 20 runs from DH and 15 tackles just to get MM on the field, we may as well start with MM and move a fresher Tommy there! Or Leave MM out altogether and play Tommy there for 80?
I agree that MM has looked a bit tired at times, maybe that has something to do with the large amount of game time he had to play early season with Deacon & Finch both being out?
Me personally, With the welcome return of Coley, Fielden, Hock shortly it lends itself more to 1 of MM, Tommy, Deacs or Finch missing out altogether.
For me Finch would be the misser but at the moment we haven't got those guys back so all 4 get in.
Tommy and Deacs at HB, MM starts with Finch on Bench. Tommy to move to 9 to mix things up if needed as defenses tire.
All in my opinion of course
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "Surely it's a bit obvious that it's my opinion? I'm not going to be giving anyone else's.
I think our kicking game has been a bit better since he switched to 9 though. '"
That's nothing to do with Tommy, except in that he hasn't been doing much kicking, Sam & Pat have been doing most of it recently, which is why it's improved.
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| Quote: Geoff "That's nothing to do with Tommy, except in that he hasn't been doing much kicking, Sam & Pat have been doing most of it recently, which is why it's improved.'"
Correct, and whether Tommy plays at 7 or 9 should in no way affect that.
PS
What was unforgiveable yesterday was that we had a 4 point lead and a strong wind behind us and in the last 5 mins twice we tried to get to the 6th tackle before getting a kick away!
Get to say 3rd, give it to Pat and let him boot the thing 60/70 yards downfied (Or even dead!).
At that point we had Tommy/Finch and Deacon on the field with god knows how many Grand final winners medals, international caps, world cup winners medal etc etc and were trying to give the thing to Tuson 25 yards from our own line to get bashed by 5 forwards trying to force a mistake just so he can gain an extra 5 yeards!
Can you imagine what Edwards would have done? "Here Joe, Boot the Bl00dy thing down field!"
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| Quote: LovesToSpooge "We're very up and down, and not just from game to game. But minute to minute. We can go from looking like absolute world beaters, to clueless robots in the space of 5 minutes.
Saying that it's a derby so I'm sure we'll be up for it.
As for predicting a result. I think the two games already played between the sides this year, show it really is going to be a toss of a coin. I'm just hoping for dry weather so we can see the best the two sides have to offer.'"
The local weather forecast isn't good, to say the least
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| Quote: Jukesays "Can you imagine what Edwards would have done? '"
Probably fed it to Offiah who would have raced under the sticks.
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| Quote: Jukesays "So what you seem to be saying is that we have a problem at Hooker? Not at Half back?
If that be the case then we have 2 x options
A/ Play Tommy at 9 for the Full 80
B/ Start with MM and move Tommy there after 30 or so as MM is not the right type of Hooker to be bringing on to provide some impact in there.
Don't tire Tommy out and have to being him off or move him to the HB's when he's knackered after 20 runs from DH and 15 tackles just to get MM on the field, we may as well start with MM and move a fresher Tommy there! Or Leave MM out altogether and play Tommy there for 80?
I agree that MM has looked a bit tired at times, maybe that has something to do with the large amount of game time he had to play early season with Deacon & Finch both being out?
Me personally, With the welcome return of Coley, Fielden, Hock shortly it lends itself more to 1 of MM, Tommy, Deacs or Finch missing out altogether.
For me Finch would be the misser but at the moment we haven't got those guys back so all 4 get in.
Tommy and Deacs at HB, MM starts with Finch on Bench. Tommy to move to 9 to mix things up if needed as defenses tire.
All in my opinion of course
You're right, I think it's hooker where the biggest problem is rather than halfback. I think with a good hooker in the side Leuluai would be fine at scrum half. You only have to look at how good Warrington and Saints can be and that their main threat comes from Monaghan and Roby respectively. I think hooker is probably the most important position on the field and it can make a huge difference to a performance in terms of attack. I don't think McIlorum is anywhere near good enough to match those two players but I think Leuluai is probably a little closer to that level. He's dangerous with ball in hand, he seems to be a better distributor and whilst he's not as good defensively as McIlorum he probably is more likely to hurt the opponents forwards with his tackling, which can make a big difference.
I think most times that McIlorum and Leuluai have started and then Leuluai moved to hooker there hasn't been that much difference in the way that the team play. The attack still looks a little laboured and predictable around the play the ball. I thought Leuluai looked much better than McIlorum against Cas considering both players were backing up and I'd be worried going into the next game having to rely on McIlorum as first choice hooker.
I'm not entirely sure what my preferred option would be. I do think that an attacking threat, someone who is dangerous running with the ball, it needed in the halves because Deacon and Finch are so similar, but I think McIlorum has been poor recently at hooker and I also think Leuluai is probably the best hooker in the team. I'd have thought the last few weeks would have been ideal to throw Mellor into the mix to see if he can add something to the halves but Madge doesn't look likely to switch Deacon and Finch, and even if he did it would be by moving Leuluai back to scrum half. There's little chance of Sam moving from fullback into the halves and I don't think one steady performance by Roberts is enough to determine whether he could provide an adequate attacking threat. I also thought Logan Tomkins deserved a chance with McIlorum looking out of sorts but it doesn't look like he'll get a look in any time soon either.
I'm just rambling now, but I don't think Leuluai is the best option at scrum half but I also don't think he's a bad option as long as McIlorum makes a significant improvement, but I'm not sure where that improvement would come from.
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| It is highly probable that one of the reasons we have struggled this year is that we lost Riddell - although looking like we strengthened the team with 3 players from Storm the loss of one of the better No 9's in the game (on last seasons form) makes a huge difference to how the rest of the team performs.
Lima and Hoff have been big sucesses - with the loss of fielden we would have really struggled without Lima in the team and hes really taken on the workhorse role. Finch has been a mixed bag for me - i'm pretty sure we haven't seen the best of him, he's definately not firing on all cylinders.
The combo of MM and piggy worked well last year , a bit of craft from piggy and some hard defence and dummy half running from MM. This season we don't really have a sound platform from 9 and it's shown in how our attack has struggled to find top gear.
Anyway - back to the team. It would have been nice to see how Finch could play at 9, his flat passes to a runner off his shoulder might be more suitable running from dummy half - though probably not a time to try him out against saints.
Starting MM against Roby I think is probably the way to go - to win against Saints, Roby needs to be shut down, together with their forwards running up the middle with a runner on their shoulder. MM's defence in the middle of the park is what's needed.
I would possibly be tempted to start Sam in the halves with deacon to allow Tommy to come on fresh at 9, Finch and two props make the rest of the bench.
Either Amos (depending on how his attitude/confidence is) or Pat at FB. If we shift Pat then Amos to the wing (it might be nice to see how King goes after he's been getting rave reviews but again it would have been good to try him out earlier in a lesser game).
Bottom line is the way we use MM and Tommy isn't quite working so we need to make a couple of changes, as it's probably the most important position on the field.
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| I think after starting against Castleford, It would do Roberts confidence a lot good if he got a start against Saints away. He might feel wanted again, and also Sam at 6 would probably throw Saints gameplan way off! Here's hoping...
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| Quote: EastStandFaithful "Is Coley fit for Friday?'"
The message I get is:
'the plan is to play him'
Apparently, he's looking good
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| 1. Sam
2. Charnley
3. Joel
4. George
5. Richards
6. Deacon
7. Leuluai
8. Prescott
9. Mickey Mac
10. Coley
11. Hansen
12. Hoffmann
13. Lockers
14. Mossop
15. Finch
16. Lima
17. Farrell (if fit)
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| I'd leave Roberts in and bring Sam back in at 6 with Coley coming back in for Tuson.
Roberts
Charnley
J Tomkins
Carmont
Richards
S Tomkins
Deacon
Coley
Leuluai
Mossop
Hansen
Hoffman
Lockers
subs
Lima
Prescott
Farrell
McIlorum
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| quielty confident about friday's game, especially if Coley is back
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