My comments relate to next season so absolutely I am. However, we came within a whisker of winning the GF last season so not far away. Gildart and French haven’t played this season. Smith still has much to improve on but I have big hopes for the lad. Bateman hasn’t got anywhere near any decent form yet and I hope he turns it around and quick. Hastings and Gildart (possibly French won’t be here next season so need quality replacements. We have the players in the squad now but without reinforcements we’ll struggle next season against strengthened Saints and Warrington sides no matter who the coach is.

Powell improved but even if has gone backwards now. Marshall had improved so that’s one. The young kids have come in and done a good job but it’s hardly like that’s a new thing at Wigan and none have made giant strides forward just yet. Joe Bullock looks no different to the lad that came in. A better season last year than his first but even Lam doesn’t seem to rate his game. He’s not even got the best out of top talents like Hastings and Bateman.

I buy in to the fact the recruitment should’ve been better and he didn’t have much luck with Burgess but I can’t help but to go back to my question about how we’d have gone under Wane these past two and a half years. We’d have still brought kids through, we’d have still been clunky at times but ultimately there is no way on this earth we’d have lost pretty much every big game we’ve played in during that period, including absolute pastings against Salford, a poor Leeds side and Hull. We were played off the park in all three and it’s those I focus on. We had bad defeats like that 48-0 last time out under Wane and we had bad spells in the weekly rounds but in the main, you knew exactly what side would turn up in big games.

Hi Lammy

Can’t argue with most of this NK, hence as I said, I’m ready for a change. Still, I can’t help thinking we’re at a critical stage with recruitment / retention and we are in dire need of an injection of experienced forwards and quality backs for next season and beyond, regardless of who the coach is..

Go on I’ll humour you… do you think we can compete with Saints and Wire next season if we don’t bring in two experienced props and quality replacements for Hastings and Gildart?

Fully agree. We may have to temper our expectations in terms of big names but hopefully we can pick up a few savvy signings (a couple of George Carmonts would be nice) If Wane is involved I’ll feel far more confident that we’ll eeek out a trophy than I do at the minute but he’s not a miracle worker.

Fair enough. Either you didn’t clarify that or I didn’t understand so in that respect I’ll agree.

It depends on numerous factors. Saints couldnt live with us in 2014 but they won the league and we didn't. If we somehow play our best 17 every week and they have 9 or 10 missing all season then who knows what might happen?

A good coach can get a little extra out of players that leads them to achieve things they should never achieve.

Shaun Wane managed a side that quality wise got worse season after season but he pulled that extra 20% out of them when it mattered. I'm not his biggest fan in terms of his playing style, but he would have taken this side further than Lam has and I would back him to take 17 blokes out the pub further than he should do as well.

Cheers. For clarity, my comments on this thread were about next season with the potential of SW being involved. There’s no doubting his credentials as others have said, but I did feel it was time for him to move on when he did. I just can’t imagine him playing anything like second fiddle to Matty Peet or anyone else though!

Didn't they finish top of the league and it was 1 win each in the regular season?

Did you think they would win the GF?

The point is that under the rules of the comp, you have to win enough games to make the playoffs and then it's all about who turns up on the day and bits of luck here and there. A guy like SW is perfect in that scenario regardless of the players he has. Not to mention that good coaches change structures and systems to suit who they have in their team. Would you have suggested our 2009 side would dominate as it did 12 months later?

We haven't even announced any signings yet or who the coach is and people have us down as struggling and someone even said finishing bottom 4. Baffling.

Me either. So he has to have had a huge shift on attitude towards being second fiddle to make it work. It can’t and won’t work otherwise. My fear is that he may say it has changed but when he gets back into the club and gets the cherry and white juices flowing again he won’t be able to stop it.

I’m half/half. Another part of me thinks we should go completely fresh and have a full 1st team coaching staff clear out and bring in new people with new ideas. I don’t think there is an easy answer here in all honesty. Each has potential significant draw backs and potential significant up lifts too.