I think he's pretty good at centre to be honest. We are small enough at second row as it is! He is just an easy target for when we are losing, people also tend to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater at these times (e.g criticism of Gildart and Williams also in this thread).

I think a big part of the difference was conditioning. They looked stronger, fitter, faster, and have barely had any injuries this year. We can't overhaul the playing personnel before 2018 (I wouldn't want to anyway, though a proper 7 and 8 would be nice if we didn't have a salary cap) but we can make changes to improve our strength and conditioning, which I think would go a long way to helping us compete with Cas, Leeds and Hull.

Certainly don't think we need to make wholesale changes at all.
First thing to address is acceptance that performance throughout the season has been lower than the requirement.

Does the club management (IL/KR) believe we need to be better next year?
If so, what changes are needed to bring this?

Does the club just accept it the way it is (and that a freak injury period was the major factor)?
Will SW acknowledge that perhaps the tactics employed need to be reviewed, how open to change would he be? I think a few decisions need to be made (and yes I'm saying this even though we still have a remote chance of progressing into the playoffs, possible GF and potential championship win again), we have to be seen to change a few things just to get bums on seats next season.

Supporters are leaving in their droves unfortunately, unimpressed with the week-to-week performances despite final appearances and trophy wins.

I agree with most of though I'd replace McIlorum with Isa in your list of players and move Gelling up to "unloaded at the first opportunity". There is one caveat to all this though and that is when Madge arrived he took a squad of underperforming players and with the addition of one player, Paul Deacon, transformed the side. I think we'd have to give quite a few of those players the benefit of the doubt and see what a new coach would get out of them. There are some players in that list that are at the end of their careers and so they might get dropped sooner rather than later under a new coach and I also I think some of the rest would soon start to see first team selection not be the seemingly automatic choice it is for them now, (Gelling and Powell in particular) but several have shown in the pretty recent past much better form than they have done this season. So I think we need to get a new coach and see what he can do with them.

I think Wane has long since lost the dressing room and this is a reason why we do better when Lockers is on the pitch. Not just because he's a great player but because the other players will play for him and listen to him.

I also think there is more than one coach significantly better than Wane in SL than just Powell. Off the top of my head Radford at Hull and Chester at Wakey have outcoached Wane more than once but then that isn't hard we are so predictable. I am not suggesting either should be targets for Wigan or if they would work well here but someone like Chester who I think would get the team doing the basics right would at least stop the rot.

I'd hope we'd be a bit more ambitious than looking to bring in either Radford or Chester, top blokes though they both are.

I take your point, but to me, Cas have done this season what Wigan did in 86/87 - raised the standard of the game to a totally new level. I don't want us to be like Saints, whose answer to Graham Lowe was to employ Alex Murphy. I feel we need to see dramatic changes in our playing and coaching staff in order to try and step up to this new mark.

I do agree, though, that we can't just swing an axe and remove all the dead wood in one go. Contracts, and all that. And yes, you're quite right, some of the players may rediscover themselves under a new, more rigorous regime.

I think we have been in a situation over the past 2 years where due to injuries as a team we have not really got going. I think we as fans underestimate the disruption that causes within the squad.

That said I do think we need a change on the coaching front. IMO any coach, however good has a limited shelf life at a single club before the team begins to stagnate and a change is needed. I believe Wane has reached that time and the club is in need of a fresh approach and new ideas. I don't think we need major changes on the playing front though I'd be looking at a new #7 if TL could be persuaded to start his coaching career. I'd also like to see the difference in stats from this set of props under another coach with different tactics as I think they would be significant.

I doubt it. I imagine most people who have been ST holders for years will continue to buy one when push comes to shove, despite all the (largely justified) moaning. Obviously, though, the brand of rugby on offer this year won't tempt any 'new' ST buyers.

Speaking personally, as a first-time ST buyer this year, I will certainly get one next year. But I have to say, I never expected that the one down-side of my re-location to Wigan this year has been the standard of rugby on offer. Everything else has been great.

And on any proposed player cull, my priorities would be at 7, 8, and 9. Gratitude last season that Powell did a sterling job in replacing MM doesn't alter the fact that he isn't really much of a dummy-half, certainly not compared to our main SL rivals. I'm not anti-Gelling, but at the very least we need cover at centre.

And as for Sam Tomkins... it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to expect that a marquee player should be pretty much the best in the comp at his position, or at least not far off it. Yet there are plenty of better full-backs in SL than him, on current form.

7 - Trent Hodkinson
8 - Julian Bousquet
9 - Shaun Lunt

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Be my picks to improve...however much you may disagree with #9, probably not Wigan quality in most of your eyes, I feel he would be great addition and relatively affordable. I see the scrum half position as most vital to spend any free cap space on!

Think we need more than just one prop. Aside a number 7 the weakest part of the squad is the front row. We have middles who are neither props nor second rowers.
The biggest single problem is per other thread is how do we replace SOL. I don't think anyone in SL can and if there are players in the NRL we probably cannot afford them. I think to replace him we will probably need to change the whole emphasis of how we play and that will take 2 to 3 years.
Along with others I feel that ST will move into the halves next year - not sure if that will work but with the level of investment made by IL in securing ST he will find a place for him somewhere in the starting 13 irrespective of form. I just hope a full pre season will assist ST in attaining better fitness levels.

I certainly wouldn't complain about more than one prop arriving! We've all been talking about ST moving into the halves, but am I the only one who finds my enthusiasm for this idea waning a little? Not saying it wouldn't be 'better than what we have now', though. Are we confident Escaré will be fully fit for the start of the season?

We desperately need an organising half with a top class kicking game - that isn't Sam Tomkins.

Too true. Sam's got it all to do just to prove that he's good enough to keep the no. 1 shirt from Morgan Escare, never mind that he can run and organise the team.