I agree with jonh to some extent. We really seem to lack basic skills and game awareness. It was the same last year but I think we are a lot better having played last year, no where. Near as stupid. We lack players with th with skill to open defences. Our centres are athletes who make meters but are unreliable in terms of in game decisions. Our halves don't have passing games, Smith is good
At kicking when given space and Williams can run but we're missing green. Mcilorum is great but doesnt open defenses so when our halves can't pick a pass it tells more that our hooker is all about d. Having. Said all this I'm confident we will be th with best team in the league if we get Sam and lockers fit. There's no way I'm giving up on wane. We'll be top 2 again this year having won 1,lost one in extraordinary circumstances and lost a close one. If we can't score when sams back I'll start to worry

There's no doubt having quality players missing makes a big difference, but across SL the number of "first grade" players who don't (or can't) do the basics right is appalling. How does a halfback get into first grade without being able to pass accurately or kick the ball? How does a centre get that far seemingly without knowing how (or wanting) to pass?

TBH it suggests there is some dreadful coaching going on in junior RL.

I think you partially explain it - a large effect for me is the lack of a decent (ie actual) reserve grade whereby players can get game time. Surely it cannot be good situation that when say, Wigan get the majority of their injured players back the ones who have filled in will play exactly where?

I do worry about the future of the game when there is no planned and decent pathway for junior players to develop before being thrown in at SL level. Unless this is sorted out then the basic skill sets (which are poor and last night were certainly missing) will never develop properly.

I agree..... Partly. The fact is that professional rugby league players in SL should be able to pass a ball accurately and hit an accurate pass whilst running forward. That includes our squad players and not just our international players.

The O/P is right. Our skill level this season in general is poor. Passes go behind the runner meaning he has to 'check' his run to take the pass far too often. Passes have gone to ground or been thrown straight into touch for too often too.

We will be better when the injured players return but that doesn't mean our back up players should be free from fair criticism.

We'll win the Grand Final.

Stop panicking

Good lad! We need more positivity rather than the constant moaning.

We'll definitely be there or there abouts when we get some bodies back, but looks like we took a few more bangs last night.

On what rationale?
We can't do basics. We have a 6 playing at 9 who hasn't kicked all season when Smith is obviously struggling but never ever gets in a position to even contemplate kicking on the last tackle. Powell is a half back to whom kicking on the last should be as natural as breathing and shoiting once a day.
We are very poor with very poor players and a back room staff who must play cards all day because we look unfit and poorly coached.

On the rationale that our best 17 is head and shoulders the best 17 in the league.

Sarginson
Manfredi
Gelling
Bateman
Charnley
Tomkins.S
Williams
Flower
Smith
Clubb
Farrell
Tomkins.J
O'Loughlin

Mossop
Crosby
+2 (whoever's in form)

Wouldn't say it's head and shoulders above everyone but it's got a chance.

It's completely fair and relevant to point out that we are way understrength at present. But that cannot be the whole of the narrative.

I mean how often do you ever have a full complement of players? There are always 2 or 3 missing, so we can't afford to start hankering after some mythical future when every single person is fully fit, because it's never going to arrive. Good grief, several players were already injured when the season started, which defies all understanding but proves that you can't afford to bank on 100% fitness.

At the same time, George Williams was brought back against Warrington, and was virtually anonymous for the whole match. Now it's a tough call, bagging the lad on his first game back - he's bound to be ring-rusty, but that no-show reminded me that he's been anonymous in lots of other games too. I wonder if we're expecting too much from Sam as well? No one could be absent as long as he has, without it having a significant impact.

There are lots of praiseworthy things about player development at Wigan. The youth policy is second-to-none, and with the odd exception of Hampshire (though I think that's been overstated), SW is prepared to give them their chances. But when you have so many youngsters in a team, heads drop when the chips are down. In addition we must face the fact that we have a real problem at halfback. I hate it when people pick on Matty Smith - he's been the only pivot available in recent weeks, so the pressure's been on him, and he virtually won the game for us against Huddersfield. But our close-in attack is generally toothless, and for that you have to look at the midfield general who is not creating enough options to challenge even average SL defences.

And it's not just Matty. Our props are very weak at present - so much so that, with the exception of Clubb, I'd happily replace all of them (and that includes Ben Flower, who's been a shadow of himself since that incident in the Grand Final).

It's easy for me to sit here and call for lots of new blood. That's not possible in the age of the salary cap. But I do think the time's come for us to revise our recruitment strategy, and look at making signings where we can. I hear some fans saying that it's like 2006 again and that we seem to have walked blindfolded into a situation were the team is substandard across the board. I totally disagree with that, but I'm starting to think that some dead wood needs to go, and something much better needs to be found to replace it, and that this is becoming a matter of urgency.

I think that's very fair and reasoned, and is pretty much how I feel. I was watching the Cowboys last night (and I'm not saying we ought to be as good as the best side in the world), and they were saying that they score a try on average every 8 tackles in their opponents twenty. Now that is remarkably good, and of course it speaks volumes for the kicking game of JT and Michael Morgan's pace. But it did get me wondering; I've not heard of similar stats in SL, but I suspect if they were produced, Wigan's score would be pretty woeful. I'm sure opposing defences don't fear us at the moment.

Unfortunately, you only need to look at our 'points difference' register, which is embarrassing for a team in the top half of the table.

Joint second and on -25 that is so shocking.

Only time will tell if your arrogance is proved to be correct or not
I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion so early into the season as we are not a very good side ATM

Our only saving grace this year is that the competition is full of crap sides, but surely that also makes it as easier for the other crap sides to win it too does it not?
I think that almost anyone is capable of winning the GF this season just as long as they jockey their way into the top 4 after 30 rounds

Shocked to find out that currently we have the 2nd worst attack in Super League at this moment in time. Only Leeds have an inferior 'points-for' with 230.