By being gracious in defeat do you mean not being honest? Because you aren’t. Saints won and that’s a fact, so well done to them, playing without any real play makers that’s an achievement, but without being bias I must say that Wigan were the better team on the day, and to say different would be being sycophantic to Saints, (which you are being) and if Wigan had won with a full team do you think that most of the Saints fans would have just said “well done Wigan you deserved it” and left it at that? give us a break hombre.

It was probably one of the strangest games I've ever seen.

Wigan were by far the more dangerous team despite being a man down, and had two very good chances of finishing it off in the 2nd half. I don't think saints would have come back if either Farrell or Bateman had scored.

The thing we really struggled with in the 2nd half was lack of forward power. Flower is the prop who often takes two hit ups in a set of 6. We didn't miss him in defence but in attack he was a big loss. The rest of our props were at best ineffective and at worst made the crucial mistakes to give Saints field position. An inform and motivated Taylor would have made a big difference in that game. I felt our 2nd rows and loose were far more effective in carting the ball up.

No Only 78 Mins.

I can't go along with all this 'yeah but we didn't have any halfbacks malarkey'. Ok Saints were without two recognised creative halfbacks but my point is that even with the halfbacks that were on the field the passing options were terrible. There were several times when Saints had a clear overlap and not once did they pass out wide. That just needed a pass instead of turning it back inside. It didn't need anything special from a recognised half back. I can't make my mind up whether it was just poor reads from the players or whether it was the game plan. If it was the latter then Saints are well rid of Brown and will be a better team for it no matter who takes over.

Nobody can fault Saints determination to win and for that they can be happy with the result. Wigan had chances to win even with a man down but they didn't take them and so can have no complaints overall. The sending off didn't help but that was not reason Matty Bowen took the wrong option not to pass to Charnley in the second half or why Smith missed a kickable goal.

Saints won, we lost. Be gracious, congratulate them, accept it and look forward to next season. Really winds me up when people don't give winners their due, it's no different to some of the Warrington fans whinging that we only won last year because of Monaghan and Ratchford's injuries. Don't get me wrong, we're entitled to wonder "what if?" but that's as far as it should go.

Saints Won A Championship Final against wigan in 1971 with 12 men. Billy Benyon The One Armed Bandit.

I made it clear in my post that Wigan had their chances and didn't take them hence no complaints from me and certainly not ungracious in defeat. My point was about Saints poor attacking options which had nothing to with not having recognised halfbacks. If they had moved the ball wide when they had clear overlaps then they would have won comfortably.

Are you implying that on the two occasions that Flanagan ignored two and three men overlaps out wide and came back inside, thereby blowing an easy 8 points, he did so because of the 'gameplan' and not because he's a back rower being asked to play at halfback ?

Is that what you're really trying to imply ? Had Saints had Walsh and Hohaia at 6 and 7 after Flower walked, they'd have ran up 40 points. The idea that having Flanagan, Wellens and Turner in the pivot positions didn't significantly impact St Helens is laughable.

A gameplay to blow easy points with a simple pass?




Are you telling me that Wellens, Flanagan and Turner are not capable of a simple pass?


My point is that if that was really a game plan then you are well shut of Brown.

A good example of that was probably an experienced Bowen who should have sent out a simple pass out wide to an unmarked Charnley for a certain try, instead Bowen did half a dummy, cut inside, then lost the ball.

But that's the point of halfbacks isn't it? When a team has its halfbacks they know when to go wide and they line up the players to ensure the ball goes wide. We had a halfback pairing of a second rower and a fullback who was supposed to play fullback but had to change thanks to our one remaining halfback leaving the field. We then had to put a winger at fullback, a centre on the wing and a prop in the centres. All the time we were playing with a centre at loose forward. Let's see how many matches Wigan win with that combination, especially when it's foisted on them two minutes into a grand final, and then come back and tell me that Wigan should have gone wide when they had overlaps.

Jeez. Halfbacks are trained to create the overlaps. Second rowers don't even know to look.

Wigan looked so good precisely because they had halfbacks on the pitch doing the job that halfbacks do. We had nobody to do that at all.

Saints started the season with one playmaker half back then lost him through injury. From the outset it was "Saints will be ok as long as Walsh stays fit".
Saints had no youth cover for Lomax, non for Walsh and non for Wilkin. If Saints had no cover then that's their fault no one else's. Stop complaining about it.
Wigan have cover,
Wire have cover,
Leeds have cover,
Hudds have cover,
Only starting the season with one playmaker half back was Saints decision so don't use it as some kind of reason or excuse.