I don't, and more importantly neither does Rads, who devotes a whole chapter of his book to how bad the health of the club was in that period. Furthermore, pretty much all the players have said the same thing, one way or another.



True, but there again, anyone would would have been an improvement over "agent Millward".



On that, we are agreed!

That's a bit optimistic. I'd say at least 10. Will give odds of 2/1 that "as an aside" will get a segment on its own.

On topic I couldn't agree more with Jukesays post. Anyone who disagrees, well they are just wrong .

Ive read that book too. To be fair a lot of the rot set in before noble came in, and as a senior player rads should have done more to stop it before it got to that stage, much like dean bell did.

But for me the biggest mistake wasnt millward, but betts. Shocking shocking decision.

Rads was referring to the 2005/early 2006 period BEFORE he came back to the club and played those last 10 games or so.

Having spoken to him I know that he agrees that BN helped to turn around that attitude problem etc at the club.
He may not have taken it as far as he should/could etc have but it was certainly a big improvement when he left than when he arrived in terms of proffesionalism around the club etc.

No-one will ever find a post of mine where I said that BN should get a New contract, What I stated at the time (Mid 2009ish) was that I didn't see any point in sacking him at that point.I also said that if no-one else was available who IL thought could do a better job then yes, maybe he should be considered for another year.
IL obviously though MM was the man and he was proved right.

That shouldn't IMO detract from the small steps the club took 2006/07/08/09 that meant, again imo, MM was taking over in a far stronger position than he would have if he had arrived here end of 2006.

Youth set up, training facilities, maturity of youth players and convincing them to stay, 1st team squad depth, commercial aspects of the club etc All go hand in had and IMO this is were we were far better end of 2009 than end of 2006.

Another one in the 'Thanks Brian' camp here.

To say Noble had no input into turning the club round is just wrong. No doubt in my mind he had taken us as far as he could and the time was right to part company, but the place was in a much healthier state when he left than when he arrived.

Lower?

I'm an optimistic person!

And I'm another one.
Lets look at what Noble did in 2006. Apart from having to sort out the mess that he inherited from Millward, he set up the new training camp at Orrell.
He told Maurice what was required and the whole Orrell social club was transformed into "the best training facilities" of any RL club (a fact often commented on by our Aussie overseas signings)

Investment in youth.
From 2002 to 2006 Wigans senior academy had won ONE Grand Final.

From 2007 - 2010 Wigan have won three and on the occasion they did not win it they finished top of their league.

As with all things it's not one man but a team effort and Brian Noble should be remembered as a very big part of the Wigan resurgence by putting the correct foundations in place for what is to come.

Agreed.

This is fun! I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, though!

I accept that Nobby had a part to play, especialy in 2006, no arguments there (although anyone would have been an improvement over Millward!).
My point is that I feel, although perhaps he put some foundations in place, he failed to build on them at the time.

It can't be denied that most of our young players were held back, at least as far as first team opportunities go. It was well documented that he would never drop his senior players, except when forced to (which is one of the things Madge is especially praised for).
The likes of Sam & Joel Tomkins, Goulding, Mossop, Flanagan never let us down when they played, but were always dropped when their more senior counterparts were available.
It is simply impossible to envisage Nobby voluntarily dropping players like Feca, Roberts, Phelps, Bailey, Gleeson in favour of the youngsters, yet a large part of this season's success is down to exactly that tactic.



A part, certainly, but not "a very big part", IMO.

nowhere we're still here, just to point out we have had a good couple of years as well!

Sorry, who are you again?


and Geoff, you're just plain wrong!