y wud u want a player who u had to do that with i dont understand ???? when we can let him go get some one like Kylie Leuluai some who wud want to play for the club no matter what we have to replaced stu and andy but it look like we have stu for another year but coley has to go

Coley needs to go. He's not at the standard we require from our props. We simply have to judge him on his performances throughout his time at Wigan, not just when he tries when he's pushing for a new contract.

Many props around who give 100%, they deserve a place at our team.

I'm excited to see what young props we have in the making and they perform. Davies can't be a million miles away from a call up.

I agree with just about everything you wrote. Especially the half back, hooker and back row comments.

Why for example is Noble afraid (which is how it seems to me) to play a back row of Lockers, Hock and J Tomkins?

Playing Smith at 7 is more risky and we would need the likes of Hansen to follow him around in defence but I am sure that is also worth a go. If Phelps can play 6 another alternative would with S Tomkins at 7 and Phelps at 6. That might be less of a defensive liability but then again Phelps tackling technique does tend to see him stretchered off at times!

As to the hookers, if TL starts there I don't see why McIllorum should make way for Riddell. The latter is just not fit enough and there is an irony that one of the attributes you think we will get from TL at 9, the darting runs to get teams on the back foot, is completely lacking from Riddell's game compared to the player who he replaced.

Dave

I disagree with putting Tim Smith in the side. I would still keep him well away from the squad and just opt for Cameron Phelps at six and Sam Tomkins at 7.

Ben Davies at prop instead of Fielden I would agree with. At least you know with Davies he will run his blood to water and give 110%. Whereas with Fielden you only seem to get half the effort. He just surrenders in the tackle far to easily and can't keep hold of the ball either in good positions.

Andy Coley has improved in recent weeks but is still not consistent over 80 minutes to warrant another contract. But an improvement in him nevertheless.

Tim Smith is a tricky one to call. My main problem with Tim is he defensive skills, or lack of, but I'm slightly baffled how I didn't really pick up on this last season when he was brought on from the bench or in the game when he started in Trent's absence.

Additionally to this I watched him play a handful of times in the NRL and didn't particularly question his defense, it was never outstanding but after all he is a 7.
Which leads me to wonder, could it be a fitness issue? Could be literally be too tired to tackle up correctly? When he's out there for a full 80? After all I did see Tim standing hands and hips many times gasping for air.

Was Smith better protected in Aus? Many 7's are the best defensively but the team looks after them in the def line.
If this aspect of his game was sorted it was be half the problem fixed.

I also commented on the how he was brought into the team, having to fill the large boots of Barrett, the spotlight was on him, is Tim the sort of bloke to deal with this?
Looking at his history in the NRL and how he left I would say no.
Now the exceptions of being a worthy replacement for Barrett has gone, this can only help Tim.

Additionally I don't like the 'split half' system Wigan play where 6 controls one side and 7 controls the other. I don't think this system benefits a ball playing, passing specialist like Smith, in my original post I discussed how Wigan should play with 7 as the first receiver 6 as second with other options coming from the FB and 13, so many options for someone with vision and passing like Tim would be fantastic.
The pressure needs to be off Tim, Nobby needs to make him enjoy his rugby.

I opted to start Phelps off at 6 in the reserves to see how he handles the position with less pressure on him against weaker opposition. I'm not too keen on throwing him in at the deep end in an already dejected team behind a beaten pack.
If Phelps does impress then from this point we can look at playing him at 6. There's even the option to play Phelps and Smith at 6 and 7 in the reserves together.

If this is the case this season we have had terrible consistency in such a key role.
Smith/Tommy
Tomkins/Tommy
Tomkins/Smith
Phelps/Tomkins or Smith.

This really isn't good enough. Lets really invest in a 7 who can run the game as a 1st receiver teaming with Sam, Orford springs to mind.

It's a good point of discussion. Generally I get the vibe that we all now consider Tommy to be the best 9 at the club, so who should work the interchange with him?

Riddell or Mc?

Tough one, for now I would have to go with Riddell for his understanding of the game, passing and scoots (not that they happen often)

But there is a bigger issue here. It took NZ 2 games to confirm Tommy is a better 9 than 7, after 3/4 years we're only just figuring it out.

We signed a NRL hooker in Riddell as the club saw Tommy as a 7, and now we're umming and rrring whether or not this NRL star is as good as a young lad second back up we already had at the club, who is likely to be considerably less dosh that the Pigster.

That is the point. Can we afford two players at 9 who command a top salary in the era of the salary cap?

TL is a world cup winning no 9 and Riddell an ex-NRL pro on a three year deal here. Neither of them are likely to be on low wages despite TL's contract being up (assuming we offer him a new deal that it won't be for peanuts).

Also McIllorum is contracted until the end of 2010 with an option of another year and of course the only player of the three out of contract at the end of the season is TL.

So what may happen? I think there are only two options unless we can release either of Riddell or McIllorum.

1. Let TL go so we can sign a better no. 7, keeping Riddell and McIllorum
2. Stay as we are offering TL a new deal to play 7.

Whatever it looks to me we screwed up in that we recruited a 9 to replace Higham when TL should have moved to 9 and we should have brought in a scrum half.

Dave

I'd be interested in Ferriol as one of our props.

Really good forward who won't cost the earth.

tbh! i agree with everything said..
anyone disagree with printing it + giving it noble ?
xx

Me, cuz itz totali crazyy init xxxxxx

Just give me the coaching job! I'm probably more educated that half of them put together anyway!

We'll have Tommy in this big deal thats going down