I've acknowledged that there was a difference several times mate. I've also given reasons why I thought this was the case and why I just don't agree it was "rolled".

On the fitness thing; cast your mind back to the Grand Final we played against you. Would you say you were fitter than us that night? Would you say you are significantly fitter than you were then or that, under Peet, our fitness levels have gone backwards?

It easy to look fitter when you're dominant, especially in possession and field position. That doesn't mean you're actually "fitter". I'll have to disagree with Browny if that's what he's suggesting. You can criticise many things about our current team but I don't believe fitness is one of them, soundbites on TV or no.

I’m being pragmatic through gritted teeth if I’m being honest.
I hate loosing to Saints and the string of L’s against them is reaching I suspect the worst in our history so although, I’m happy to see an improvement it is from a deplorable level re the 2021 season.

IL needs to sign some real quality next season. The club are getting fans back on their side and i think the vast majority did not expect a win yesterday but trying hard with small incremental improvements will not be sustainable for the majority I suspect if next season there are no major signings.

In Peet I think we have a coach who wants to play rugby and from a personal point of view in the short/medium term I can accept and wait for the right squad to be developed.

I think thats the issue, we cant as the dossers this year werent signed on 1 year contracts so the likes of Thornley and Miski will be here next year, one of them is even taking up a quota spot

Tommy, Hardaker and I suspect French will exiting at the end of the season.
From memory Powell and Shorrocks I think are also out of contract. I’m sure there will be others too.

I acknowledge within a salary cap things can’t be turned around in a season but will probably need at least 2 or 3 years.
We are going to need patience, good fortune and some decent signings to get us to the next level.

Yes I think we are much fitter now. That GF was Woolf’s first season, one that was decimated by Covid. Our pack was different with the likes of Graham and Taia at the end of their careers. This is now Woolfs 3rd season and our linespeed and intensity in defence is much improved, even last year was an improvement on 2020. Knowles is now coming into his own, Lees flies out the line etc and puts tremendous pressure on attackers, so from a fitness point of view yes I think we are significantly fitter.

When you look at the body shapes of the two teams, I just think we look more athletic, carrying less body fat etc. I’m obviously not a S & C expert but I’m just giving my opinion.

Apart from Hurrell of course!

In case anyone is feeling very depressed about how good Saints are their dominance is likely to come to an end next couple of years.

Woolf no doubt be an option for an NRL top job (I wouldn’t recommend going to West’s though)

Roby will finish soon (looks like he could play forever though)

Walmsley, Lomax both 32 this year, Makinson 31.

Lees is an NRL target and word is that Dodd fancies it at some point too.

Grace is a union target.

With success comes the longing for new challenges.

No doubt these players will be replaced with quality signings and academy prospects though.

I must say I’d hope Saints can keep their players together and Wigan just get up to their level rather than wait for them all to leave haha!

A great benchmark team is good for the competition. Would have loved to seen Saints play Penrith in the WCC this year but wasn’t to be.

Wigan have very high standards and I get that if we’re not the best we aren’t good enough but this is year 1 of Peet.

Last year we could barely score a try even against the bottom teams.

Now this year the style of play is much improved, connection with the fans improved massively.

Yes we are comfortably behind Catalans and Saints but we’re moving in the right direction.

If it was us in this position with guys like Welsby, Dodd, Lees, Knowles etc there is no doubt we’d be ripped apart but they do a good job of keeping their squad together. What they will have is a number of players looking for whopping increases. Going off the quality of them against their Superleague peers, there’s cases for 7 or 8 asking for marquee deals and obviously they can’t all get them. It’ll take some creative accounting to keep them relatively in tact. If we’re paying the same for our squad as there’s currently, we’ve got players being grossly overpaid and they’ve got guys being underpaid.

I think it’s an interesting phase for Saints next year.

Firstly losing Roby can’t be underestimated. His performance on the pitch has been great so far this year (probably the best hooker in England so far), but it’s his influence off the pitch where it’s really going to matter. A lot has been mentioned about Saints “culture” since the game yesterday but so much of it stems from the standards he sets every day. If Lomax/ Makinson/ Walmsley pick that standard up and continue, then that will really go a long way to continuing the success we have had recently.

On the pitch, you would expect Lussick will be a direct replacement for Roby after a year of education, with either Smith returning or Pemberton stepping up into the team. Amor and Hurrell are likely simple internal replacements in Norman and Simm (assuming they stay) which then frees up money to either keep Grace/ Lees/ LMS or find upgrades for them (assuming we trigger Mata’utia and Paasi’s 1 year options). Two props in one recruitment season is a tall order but it might be made easier by a certain ex-Saints prop deciding the NRL is overrated and comes back for a mere 75k on the cap Johnstone to replace Grace wouldn’t be bad either

It speaks volumes you concentrate on saints negatives rather than Wigan’s positives. Saints will be fine. They are the biggest club In SL with the best academy.

Bar the biggest club, with best academy bit, which we know isn’t true, I agree. We can no way just sit here pinning our hopes on Saints imploding. Where there is a will, there is a way when it comes to keeping a squad together and Saints will find a way IMO. There will be the odd exit they’d like to avoid, Roby will retire and Woolf will probably go but we don’t want to sit waiting for another 5 years for Saints to start showing cracks.

We need to sit here in a couple of years and thank Saints for dragging our standard up. We’re not Salford, Wakey, Cas etc and we don’t ever want to compete by other teams standards falling. The actual best academy in the UK will always ensure we’re there or thereabouts but we need to work out how we supplement that adequately to close the gap of our own accord.

Another good win for Saints today missing just the 5 players

A strange choice from Watson if he chose to change more than a few of those. Unfortunately, Lewis Dodd’s season injury just been confirmed; bad news for Saints and England, I think he would have partnered Lomax in the halves in the WC. Really disrupts Saints for the rest of the year too.

Not sure that was ever your point mate haha.

All jokes aside shocking news for Dodd being ruled out for the season. Huge blow for him. The way he was going he wouldn’t have been far off an England call up.

Roby stepped into 7 today but it’ll be interesting what we do long term this season now. Hopoate to 1 and Welsby to 7 is the other option.

Dreadful news. All the joking with YG aside, I really don’t wish any injuries on them and certainly not to a kid like that. He’s been a pleasure to watch and I’m England first, even before Wigan, so it is a blow.