Any of the 9 missing from Friday expected back this week?

As has been pointed out Saints never really get hammered by Wigan but if it’s Fridays team I feel they will.

But the issue is who is responsible for it happening?

It is cyclical Stu but the period of success can be far longer if the correct decisions are made by those in authority at the club. Man Utd under Ferguson and Wigan in the 80’s and 90’s are prime examples. However, in order to extend a period of success the people in charge need to be ruthless.

Seems like Clarke, Hurrell, Knowles and Matautia will be.

I think a calculated gamble was made by Saints with regard to their team selection against Cas and it backfired. I expect a good few to be available this week.

I'm not going to bag Saints for giving Wellens a crack. You could be ultra critical and say they should have learned from KC that giving a completely untested coach a top job first is a very big risk, but the word around the place and from people like Holbrook and Woolfe was that Wellens is the opposite of KC, very tactically minded and very smart about the game etc. I wasn't overly enthused at the appointment, but I didn't see it as a terrible decision. Giving a young British coach a go and someone well thought of, I think we all hoped he'd do well.

But if the rumours are true about them offering him a 2 year extension then it beggars belief. I cannot, for the life of me, see what they've seen over the last 2 years that's made them think yep, this guy is a great fit and he can lead us to success. Absolutely crazy decision that smacks of cost cutting. I'm 100% sure they thought it was a decision they could just about get away with, rather than would be met with enthusiasm. Well the performances of the last few weeks, coupled with our fixture list over the next month have completely buggered that thought. They'll be absolutely slaughtered if they announce that now.

I was never going to advocate sacking him, and I still don't think they should sack him before the end of the season as I don't think it would make a difference to this year anyway, and would just desecrate his legacy as a player. But his contract should have been let to expire with the agreement that it hasn't really worked out and he won't be offered another, maybe even a return to being the assistant coach as he seems to do well there. As it is, I just can't see how this doesn't end badly from here.

I'm not going to bag Saints for giving Wellens a crack. You could be ultra critical and say they should have learned from KC that giving a completely untested coach a top job first is a very big risk, but the word around the place and from people like Holbrook and Woolfe was that Wellens is the opposite of KC, very tactically minded and very smart about the game etc. I wasn't overly enthused at the appointment, but I didn't see it as a terrible decision. Giving a young British coach a go and someone well thought of, I think we all hoped he'd do well.

But if the rumours are true about them offering him a 2 year extension then it beggars belief. I cannot, for the life of me, see what they've seen over the last 2 years that's made them think yep, this guy is a great fit and he can lead us to success. Absolutely crazy decision that smacks of cost cutting. I'm 100% sure they thought it was a decision they could just about get away with, rather than would be met with enthusiasm. Well the performances of the last few weeks, coupled with our fixture list over the next month have completely buggered that thought. They'll be absolutely slaughtered if they announce that now.

I was never going to advocate sacking him, and I still don't think they should sack him before the end of the season as I don't think it would make a difference to this year anyway, and would just desecrate his legacy as a player. But his contract should have been let to expire with the agreement that it hasn't really worked out and he won't be offered another, maybe even a return to being the assistant coach as he seems to do well there. As it is, I just can't see how this doesn't end badly from here.

I'm not going to bag Saints for giving Wellens a crack. You could be ultra critical and say they should have learned from KC that giving a completely untested coach a top job first is a very big risk, but the word around the place and from people like Holbrook and Woolfe was that Wellens is the opposite of KC, very tactically minded and very smart about the game etc. I wasn't overly enthused at the appointment, but I didn't see it as a terrible decision. Giving a young British coach a go and someone well thought of, I think we all hoped he'd do well.

But if the rumours are true about them offering him a 2 year extension then it beggars belief. I cannot, for the life of me, see what they've seen over the last 2 years that's made them think yep, this guy is a great fit and he can lead us to success. Absolutely crazy decision that smacks of cost cutting. I'm 100% sure they thought it was a decision they could just about get away with, rather than would be met with enthusiasm. Well the performances of the last few weeks, coupled with our fixture list over the next month have completely buggered that thought. They'll be absolutely slaughtered if they announce that now.

I was never going to advocate sacking him, and I still don't think they should sack him before the end of the season as I don't think it would make a difference to this year anyway, and would just desecrate his legacy as a player. But his contract should have been let to expire with the agreement that it hasn't really worked out and he won't be offered another, maybe even a return to being the assistant coach as he seems to do well there. As it is, I just can't see how this doesn't end badly from here.

Christ this forum is dreadful. No idea how that posted so many times, other than the forum kept reloading on me lmao. Won't let me delete the extras either

The other Wigan forum has always been far superior

I've no doubt! I haven't seen many forums or even websites in general that are as awful to use as this one in my life

That Saints result/performance v Cas was the worst possible thing for Wigan.
Saints are a very proud club and will come out on Friday and throw everything at us. The players, staff and fans will demand nothing less, they'll all be fired up, Wigan beware.
On to Wellens and that performance, he didn't coach Welsby, Blake or Ritson to drop those kicks or Paasi to drop a simple pass with the try line in sight. They won't do it on Friday. Wigan beware.

I'm expecting a tight game, both these teams can defend, there won't be much in it.

Won't let me quote you RG but I couldn't disagree more with you. Normally I agree with more or less everything you say but not this time.

We were supposed to have a reaction to the pummeling at HKR which never happened, then it was from the Salford game away yet here we are. This team isn't capable of turning this around in a week with the quality of Walmsley, Makinson and Batchelor still missing amongst others.

Wigan will have too much pace and class in the backs and I'd be staggered if they don't win by at least 12. There seems to be apathy between the players now with Lomax blowing up a lot on Friday even though he was at fault for a lot of our awful attack. Wellens is now in that situation that coaches find themselves in where he has now thrown the players under the bus at his post-match presser. This only ends one way.

This isn't an emotional reaction but I said to my lads walking back to the car on Friday that I can see us losing every game in July. Friday is a defeat and then Warrington at home (they have a great record at our place) and Leigh A are both games we could conceivably lose.

I can only then imagine the fans reactions as toxic given the decline of a team that less than 2 years ago won the WCC in Australia (regardless of what some thought of Penrith's attitude)

It is going to be a very interesting few weeks

Of note is that Vaughan made his debut for the last 10 mins or so on Friday and it was clear how skinny he looked. How can Wigan produce the likes of Nsemba and Farrimond and they look like men in comparison? Robertson is another who is clearly going to be a superstar but at this stage looks like a skinny kid.

Good post The Reaper (I can't quote it for some reason)

I think Wello has served a much better apprenticeship than KC and has seemingly contributed to our success over the last few years. Last season there was mitigation too - an away WCC trip, a severe injury list and only just tipped off in two semi finals (we won ten on the spin between these two games to finish joint top). I think he made some good signings too and there was every reason to be optimistic this year IMO. Things are completely different now though and the longer Wellens has been coaching the worse we have been playing.

Tactically we are completely reliant on a full pack and he doesn't have the ability or the inclination to change things around when we don't have one. The playmakers are either out of form, playing injured and/or past it, but they must be collectively bored stiff by being stifled into repeatedly dropping off passes or kicking for defensive territory. They should be looking for more work but if it's against the tactics..?

Five blokes in the coaching box and not one positive idea or even slight deviation from the plan, even when we are behind late in the game. The decision to kick for two at 4-0 up on your opponents line with half an hour left was the most bizarre, negative and uninspiring decision I've seen in a long time. Simultaneously got the crown even more on the teams back whilst giving Cas the belief that we had fired our shot and didn't think we could score. Bearing in mind this is a team we put 60 on a month ago!

His use of interchanges is woeful and seemingly pre-programmed around these archaic tactics. This week Burns and Stephens came on and made a difference but they didn't get enough opportunity to turn the game our way despite looking capable of doing so (especially against this particular opposition). Last week he used 6/8 on the hottest day of the year, one of which was in the last minute and another one hurriedly made after the player he brought on was playing out of position and got smashed first carry.

Friday was a real turning point for me and these issues feed into the longer term plan of integrating this highly rated group of young lads and balancing the squad with signings and retentions. Can we trust Wellens to give these lads a fair shot at making it when they only get a brief opportunity out of necessity? And who externally would want to come into this rigid structure that bores the fans and players?

Whether he's signed again or not he needs to quickly make some positive changes or else the writing is on the wall and it's just a matter of when he gets his cards.

Two good posts there from SFW and The Reaper

Just had a look at the hanidcap for Friday. Wigan are -10. I wonder when the last time was that Wigan were -10 against Saints. The bookies aren't usually far off.