I'm not convinced Saints have done all that much wrong. The fans are getting angry just as Wigan fans would after a performance like that. But I think a decline was somewhat inevitable after four straight titles which was unquestionably an incredible achievement.

Off the back of success in a salary cap sport comes the need to hand out larger contracts to the players that got them there so it leaves you with little room to change things when the tide turns. You cant replace James Roby - one of the best ever SL players (maybe the best). Losing Regan Grace was a blow but he picked up long term injuries anyway. They couldn't have accounted for Lewis Dodd's regression. I think when the streak was broken it may have been difficult to reset the motivation levels given what had been achieved. Giving a young English coach a crack should be applauded - it worked for Wigan with Wane and Peet but not for Saints with Cunningham and Wellens. Given the success of Holbrook and Woolf I guess it's understandable that Saints fans want to look overseas again.

The squad will need to evolve significantly over the next couple of years but I still wouldn't rule them out of stringing three playoff games together at the end of the year with a fit squad who would have a point to prove.

Wellens is the fall guy. He should be applauded for even taking the job. Nobody could rebuild a side in a couple of years. It's the exact same scenario as Man Utd gave Moyes. Ferguson got every last ounce out of them the previous season as did Woolf. Nobody could have steadied that ship and the majority of the blame has to go with the recruitment team.

All that being said however, long may it continue

Four takeaway bits on this/Saints/us from me...

1. Success is cyclical. Their great side (& it was a great side) is undoubtedly at the back end of a cycle. We seem to be at the start of something. That's sport, I'll enjoy it whilst we're on top but I won't gloat too much either - we'll be back there one day (just hopefully not too soon tho)

2. Their decline shows how important having a long term head coach is. I hope that, when our cycle comes to its natural end, Matty Peet is still here. Transitioning well and not having a complete drop-off, is a lot easier when you keep the same coach/manager. Bellamy, Fergie etc are the blueprints for this.

3. I still think that, should Saints get a couple of players back, there's one last big punch in them. The only question is - can Wellens motivate them enough?

4. We need to beat them on Friday. No excuses and for me, it's another acid test for finding out how good of side we are. When the roles were reversed, Saints always made us pay. Let's do the same.

Good post this

I’ve already wrote next week off in my mind. It would take a gargantuan turn around from what we produced in Friday to what we need to even be in a contest with Wigan. We were that bad. I’ll still be there obviously but this is just Cunningham all over again. History is repeating itself and nothing will improve now until a change is made. Wellens has not improved a single facet of our play and he is simply unable to coach and motivate this side in the correct way. It’s only a matter of time and it all comes down to how ruthless McManus is.

Also to the poster I mocked about a month ago for suggesting the League Leaders shield would be a foregone conclusion by the end of July - I apologise. It seems you were bang on.

Fair play to you YG. Not many posters willing to hold their hands up like that

When was the last time Wigan absolutely pumped Saints in a match? The only one that sticks in my mind is the Magic Etihad game, if there's been a more recent one I've forgotten it.

There was the season Ben Barba was at Saints and he packed his bags when he got a NRL deal, Gildart went round him like he was a dustbin, that was probably the last time we never had to break sweat to beat them.
I just hope Saints don't do what Wire did prior to the cup final and play a load of kids, that was horrible for us.

Any of the 9 missing from Friday expected back this week?

As has been pointed out Saints never really get hammered by Wigan but if it’s Fridays team I feel they will.

But the issue is who is responsible for it happening?

It is cyclical Stu but the period of success can be far longer if the correct decisions are made by those in authority at the club. Man Utd under Ferguson and Wigan in the 80’s and 90’s are prime examples. However, in order to extend a period of success the people in charge need to be ruthless.

Seems like Clarke, Hurrell, Knowles and Matautia will be.

I think a calculated gamble was made by Saints with regard to their team selection against Cas and it backfired. I expect a good few to be available this week.

I'm not going to bag Saints for giving Wellens a crack. You could be ultra critical and say they should have learned from KC that giving a completely untested coach a top job first is a very big risk, but the word around the place and from people like Holbrook and Woolfe was that Wellens is the opposite of KC, very tactically minded and very smart about the game etc. I wasn't overly enthused at the appointment, but I didn't see it as a terrible decision. Giving a young British coach a go and someone well thought of, I think we all hoped he'd do well.

But if the rumours are true about them offering him a 2 year extension then it beggars belief. I cannot, for the life of me, see what they've seen over the last 2 years that's made them think yep, this guy is a great fit and he can lead us to success. Absolutely crazy decision that smacks of cost cutting. I'm 100% sure they thought it was a decision they could just about get away with, rather than would be met with enthusiasm. Well the performances of the last few weeks, coupled with our fixture list over the next month have completely buggered that thought. They'll be absolutely slaughtered if they announce that now.

I was never going to advocate sacking him, and I still don't think they should sack him before the end of the season as I don't think it would make a difference to this year anyway, and would just desecrate his legacy as a player. But his contract should have been let to expire with the agreement that it hasn't really worked out and he won't be offered another, maybe even a return to being the assistant coach as he seems to do well there. As it is, I just can't see how this doesn't end badly from here.