I'd add Isa to that list. The unforced error at the play the ball when we're just looking to control sets was a big reason for the loss. He gets up and plays the ball properly and the Grace try never happens. KPP pulling out had a massive effect on us as did having to replace the very solid Ellis with an all but non-playing Partington. Then down to 12 men for the last quarterish of the game was just too much. Many reasons to be optimistic though

With regards to Saints being dominant in the middle; I think that's being way over emphasised as some marker as to who is best. Sure, we'd like more go forward without doubt but I'm equally sure they'd like to be able to score from anywhere on the field like we can. They play their way, we play ours. Our way won us the semi final and, red card aside, would have won us this one. We're the new Entertainers and that'll do for me

Fair comment Stu but I disagree. Makinson is a good finisher but he's not a length of the fielder against anyone with pace. Same for Percival. Grace is really your only player with that kind of pace. More importantly though, you don't set up to play that way unlike ourselves. You play an attritional forward based game which is fair enough as that's where your advantage lies. But 'entertaining' (for all bar Saints fans) it's not. It reminds me of similar criticism Wigan got in the Madge era. Wigan fans found it extremely entertaining but for the most part opposition fans not so much. No amount of us arguing to the contrary would change that opinion as yours won't now.

I can't say for certain we would have won of course. It's just an opinion. Even with the sending off we were a couple of minutes from beating you so (along with the semi win) the point I'm making still holds.

And that's a fair response. I guess its how you describe entertaining. Other than Grace are we likely to score a try from deep inside our own half? Probably not and I fully agree that we haven't got that pace across our 1-7 (although Welsby is surprisingly quick once he gets going)

However if we score from 20m out by the ball going through 6 or 7 players hands and Makinson with a diving finish in the corner, then that for me is still entertaining.

After a couple of seasons of being nowhere near Saints we're competitive again and getting royally entertained along the way.
Will they start as favourites if we meet in the play-offs, certainly, but will they know they've been in a game, definitely, do for me after the last few seasons of drudgery

Ah yeah, encouraging players to voluntarily take shots to the head sounds like a really good idea

Indeed Stu. So is a second rower running a good line a la Faz or a little chip, chase and regather from a clever half back. What I'm saying is they aren't Field/French last try on Saturday entertaining. Those sorts of try even get opposition fans on their feet.

This isn't a knock, or dig at Peet as I can't overstate how happy i am and how good it is to be a Wigan fan at the min. I do however think that they club hasn't been as ruthless as it needs to be with certain players. Personally, I can't believe Nicholson didn't get more time especially when Shorrocks and Partington have both played at 13 - neither, imo, are good enough.

Welsby has shown he’s rapid in the two leagues games against Wigan. He wasn’t far off closing Field down on Good Friday and French couldn’t get to him on Saturday. (Was it him who closed French down in the cup semi as well? Can’t remember although French wasn’t match fit then) It’s a different sort of pace I guess. Maybe a bit Radlinski like, i.e not explosive off the mark but sustained pace over a distance.

It was yeah, he caught French in the semi. He's definitely not quick off the mark but as you say once he gets going he's deceptively fast. He has a strange posture for me and I always think of Alex Ferguson's comments about Henderson and his gait when I see Welsby walking. My 11 year old lad commented on it as welll, its a very strange posture he adopts when he is walking.

Couple of questions for you Wigan fans though...

Where does Tommy L fit into a first choice Wigan team? Can you afford him to take up a bench spot over someone like O Neill who can offer something different against tired defences? Smith has to be one of the first names on the team sheet now, he also seems to rarely miss with his goalkicking and Cust looks a good player fully fit. That's not even taking into account the prospect of Field at 6.

I know TL is a leader and hits like a sledgehammer but where does he fit in now

Secondly where does KPP play in a fully fit team? Centre or back row. Does he replace Thornley or Bibby in a fully fit team or is he a bench option for the back row? Looks like he can comfortably play 80 mins so in some ways would be a waste of minutes if he was on the bench.

He didn't nearly close a not match fit French down on GF. He was losing ground and only a last ditch diving ankle tap saved the day. French did get to him for his try on Saturday over a very short distance and giving Welsby a start. He didn't stop the try but that's a different argument. Welsby is quick but he isn't length of the field quick. Not even close.

Tommy needs to be in the match day 17. We don't win the CC without him. Whether that's off the bench or starting depends on the opposition. KPP in the centres all day for me, simply because that's our weakest position. Neither Isa nor Bibby are centres. I've seen enough of both shooting out of the line to be honest. Enough is enough. Thornley is being underrated. He has been excellent for us, injuries notwithstanding. KPP and Thornley at centre when fully fit.

Welsby is pretty quick but I don’t think he’s as fast as French, Field and Grace and he’s nowhere near their acceleration. Bibby waltzed round him in the cup semi didn’t he and he’s hardly fast? That said I think you’re right, in a 20/30/40m race he’s not the quickest but full pitch probably not that far off. I do think he had the run on Field though in the semi and Field had run further plus was carrying the ball, i don’t think he’d get close in a straight race.