Why? Size, mostly. If you're not big and tall like Manfredi to be able to compete for those cross-kicks and win them, you're missing an important part of the modern winger's armoury. But he has the potential to be a good, Joel Moon-style centre.

Also, a passing game can come in time. Josh Dugan was an Origin player before he had any kind of passing game at all. Admittedly, he is a ball-carrying freak, but still...

Good point, I was going to say this.

He's still a young lad (has he even turned 20 yet?). His passing game is something that will improve over the coming seasons as he gains some experience. It takes a lot of confidence to throw balls out in the tackle (fear of losing the ball).

He's got the athleticism to be a good centre, the skill will come as he matures.

As a side note, it's looking like a good weekend for us so far. Saints getting smashed so we'll stay in the 4. And we could well end the day joint top if Hull KR turn up.

Not bad for a totally team.

He played wing earlier in the season and excelled under the high ball.

And ask any Leeds fan, Moon hardly ever passes to Hall.

Yeah, that was kinda what I meant...

But Moon does score tries himself, and if he has to take some of the blame for Hall's ordinary form, from a Leeds fan's point of view...

Yes, isn't it! Really enjoyed seeing Wakey turn over the Cats, and wasn't surprised to see the Giants beat Saints. The margin was a lot more comfortable than I expected, though.

KC OUT?

Anyone catch Maguire laughing and joking with Matty Smith after the final hooter? Roll back to 2006 when we were rock bottom I would have been livid if I'd seen any of the Wigan players in this kind of mood after getting walloped..!!

To be fair people tend to criticise centres for not passing even when there's nothing on and it would just be a pass for the sake of passing. If it's 2 on 2 there's not really a reason to pass until you can draw the man. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard fans around me complaining because a centre didn't pass when it was a 2 on 2 situation. We've been very poor at creating space for our outside backs this year so it's little wonder that our wingers are seeing less of the ball. Manfredi gets some good opportunities because Gelling has the size and skill to create something from nothing. Gildart relies on his pace and his ability to draw the man but he won't really attract the winger if he has little space to run with the ball.

Even if he is being a little too cautious at the moment, it's more than likely just a phase. His passing was fine when he played last year. In fact it's one of the reasons why people were describing him as a natural centre. Sometimes a little dip in confidence or a bit of added pressure can have a noticeable effect. I'm pretty confident that if the attack can start firing again like it has done in the past then Gildart will be fine.

I agree that people do tend to want centres to just be passing machines and they'll judge far too quickly when lads don't ship the ball at every opportunity. A lot of people really rated Darrell Goulding because he was seen as being a wingers Centre but maybe he passed because he didn't have the running game to trouble teams?! He was nowhere near as threatening as Gildart with the ball in hand and he had Sam Tomkins helping make space for him.

I'm a huge Gildart fan and he definitely has the talent to go on and become top class. His passing game needs work but it's certainly more of an observation then a criticism.

Im sure Gildart will be fine if the coaches realise what we in the stand can see,hes devolped this little issue that needs a bit of working on and he'll be reet.

I have only seen the highlights due to being on a family holiday, apart from the score what were the positives?

Definitely not a good weekend for the Super Saints, but they managed to go one better than us in one department - by playing in an even worse kit than we did.

Stop calling us Super Saints that is well past its sell by date, our playing kit reflected the way we played.....wimpish.

like wane said, we played well for the first 20 in each half. In these spells we looked far more organized than we have all season. There was shape in attack with passes finding the right men, this is most obvious in the isa and gildart tries. It might just be that leeds were terrible but i think its down to having more of our playmakers fit.

The other big positive was the end to sets. We were consistently putting up bombs that landed yards from the leeds line and had 1 or 2 chasers competing for the ball or tackling the receiver immediately. Hardaker dropped one for an isa try and we scored two more from them in the second half. Both sam and smith were doing the long range kicking with williams getting more involved close to the line.

In the end we completed at about 75-80%, conceded off two poor missed one on ones, and didnt play as well in the last 20 but that was without sam and lockers. Im not getting too excited because leeds have been so bad but there were signs of organization and game management that ive not seen all season and will make us difficult to beat if we keep them up. Really looking forward to the cas game now, it will be a good test of whether we have improved.