That makes grim reading, but I don't think there's anything there I'd honestly disagree with.

I dont really see the SC as the ultimate evil, holding back RL's growth.
Too low though? Yes, for sure.
But, given our own clubs history, how many of our fast-rising youngsters would have got the chance to shine in SL if we could just buy-in anyone we wanted?
And i would include Sam in that.
I'm more excited about our future now, than for many a year!
Yawnion will continue to poach our star talent because they cant produce such high intensity athletes of their own.
Burgess is a loss to RL....... But we can & will develop more of the same in our game.
Something RU simply cant do!

And they will all leave. There is no future in this approach.

We have always brought plenty of players through the junior ranks anyway. What was great to see was players like that complimented with star players as and when they became available.

There is nothing sensible in sport about not signing an Offiah if you can in order to keep playing a locally produced player if the latter is not as good.

Our self imposed financial limit means we can't sign the Offiah's any more. You really [idon't[/i want to watch talent like that in the game?

In any case no team has ever been able to staff itself with mega stars all bought in and Wigan didn't. Players like Hampson, Edwards, Clarke and Betts came through the ranks.

The bigger issue is when you end up with a team of overseas players who aren't that good keeping out local players and this did happen at other clubs.

I suppose what I am trying to say is there is always room for class players in any side whereas panic buying mediocre Aussies to try and avoid relegation is a much bigger issue and it one the game [ihas[/i faced in the recent past. I think we will see it again particularly if the overseas quota is relaxed as I believe is the plan.

I think the logic behind doing that is a recognition there just aren't enough players up to the required standard to operate what is in effect a 24 team pro competition. We knew that already and part of the solution appears to be to allow more mediocre overseas players in (because we won't be signing top class players).

When you add into the mix the fact another proposal is to limit the number of academies (I think it is to 10) we are even stifling our own production line as a sport.

In the short term Wigan will be fine but when Hampshire follows Sam and there isn't a player as good coming through, then what?

Hope he fails and comes back with his tail between his legs - while were on it what has Joel Tomkins actually done in Union? Heard literally nothing of him since.

This x 2. I hope some of the NRL big boys hurt him as much as possible and he rots in the reserves so when he does go to Union he has little impact and puts other RL players off from making the move, if Burgess can't make it what chance have the rest they will ask.

Agreed.

I have never understood those responding to the talent-drain worry by casually stating "Not a problem, we can always produce more".

It really is the emptiest of boasts.

I mean, how difficult can it be to understand that each new generation of talent will get cherry-picked unless we try to stop it? As Phibes said, this is no longer an occasional thing, it's becoming accepted as the inevitable next stage in a young RL star's career.

The Burgess saga really ought to have lit the blue touch-paper. Even the Aussies, who are famous for their bravado in these situations, have been shaken by that - as it's proved to them that the NRL is not, in itself, enough of a draw. But when I hear Brits saying it, I'm staggered.

At this rate, unless we do something, the UK is going to be left with a league full of journeymen, poor overseas buys, and exciting kids who, the moment they mature, will go somewhere else.

How anyone can be excited by that future bewilders me.

what a waste

When I saw Burgess play in the World Cup I thought that we could build a team around him that would be competitive with the Aussies. He's as good a player as anyone I have ever seen. With Burgess leading the side, better coaching and the other players benefitting from being in the NRL we could have had a chance to compete with the Aussies in a way that we haven't for decades (apart from a brief period in the early 90s). It was an exciting moment and all that has gone now. Losing Burgess is an absolutely massive blow to England and the international game.

How long before Sam Tomkins and others follow him to RU?

In the long term RL seems to have no future as an elite sport, certainly in this country and potentially now in Australia too. (At some point the ARU will get its house in order and then the raids on the NRL will really start.)

We had a chance with the advent of SL to boost the game to the point where it could have been more competitive with the NRL and RU. By improving clubs' financial health we could have made it far more of a gamble financially for players to leave British RL for RU or even the NRL and by forcing clubs to invest in player development we could have had a much more competitive England team and a better international scene to offer players to keep them in RL.

Repeated failures of vision and management have brought us to where we are now. I know there will be many reading this post who will not like me saying this, but the attitude of many RL fans that a level playing field is a good idea (especially if the level is Wakefield's rather than Wigan or Leeds') has also contributed to where we are now. These flat eathers have made it easier for the RL authorities to bring in crazy and counterproductive schemes (my "favourite" was the 20/20 rule - sheer madness, a bonkers rule that made the salary cap look sensible and well thought out).

Some people just seemed to want to restrict pay out of envy that the players should earn enormous salaries like 100k p.a. (peanuts in sporting terms, 2 or 3 days pay to Wayne Rooney). You know who you are.... hang your heads in shame...

So, I would say to all the people that have posted on this board over the years in support of the salary cap and the other failed structures that have wrecked the chances of RL to move forward in this country, I hope you are happy.

What did these people expect? Well, they've got what they wished for. I'm too sad now about the future of the game to be angry with these people any more, it's just too late now. Managed decline into a second rate future is the best we can hope for, but I suspect that's too optimistic. In the long term I think we are likely to see SL become more like the French domestic championship than what it is today. Happy days for the level playing field nutters

Wasn't aware of that. Unbelievable.

I think it's the best we can hope for. I think there's a real risk that the exciting kids won't bother coming into RL in the first place or will be snapped up as juniors by RU scouts.

Played in the Autumn internationals for England but was pretty quiet. Missing the Six Nations due to injury. Not sure he'll find it easy to get back in either as his replacement - Luther Burrell - has been playing well and scored I'm both matches so far.

The centres are going to be very congested over the next couple of years with ex-RL players, let alone thoroughbred RU players like Twelvetrees, Tuilagi and Burrell.

Players like Burgess and Tomkins were obviously offered 'fast track' England chances as an incentive to switch but there's only so many people you can offer that to. I'm not sure that will stop the current trend of defections though.

What the Burgess incident shows is that not even the NRL is a big enough draw to keep players in RL. I remember when Sam's exit from Wigan was first mooted some took comfort from the 'at least he's still in RL' argument but now it seems to be a countdown till the next star converts unless serious changes are made.

Dont panic people, the good Dr over @ Salford will have him back in RL in a jiffy!

I think the only saving factor is that Union is not as exciting to play as League. When I used to play Union in the Army, in some games, you hardly touched the ball!

Soooo then, in a sport where clubs already seem to be falling over themselves to go bankrupt..... How does removing the salary cap help retain our best talent?
I neither agree nor particularly disagree with it. But as a business manager myself, i fully appreciate that you simply cannot sustain direct cost increases without the necessary improved revenue streams required to fund it. Commercial suicide.
If even the NRL cant now compete with the filthy
Yawnion Dollar, then what chance has a far less cash-rich SL got?
I dont like it one bit - Especially losing quality RL developed talent to a far inferior sport.
But as with any business, the big 'uns will always trample over the little 'uns.
When RU was a part-time sport, we were one of the worst for poaching their top talent. For the time being the boot is very firmly on the other foot, and its our turn endure the headhunting.
Forget the cap, the RFL, Stevo etc etc... Commercially, where would all this extra cash magically appear from?
Not bland acceptance, just an acknowledgement of RL's current state of affairs.

Sorry, but the argument that we need the salary cap because things would be worse without it is false. The choice isn't between having the salary cap or having nothing.

We could have a system that encouraged and rewarded growth in income - then clubs would find ways of raising revenue. Money would not magically appear, it would be earned.

What we now have is a system that allows clubs to stagnate, offering no incentive for growth. In fact stagnation would be preferable to the situation we have now, which is one in which the SC has not been raised in line with inflation due to the financial issues at many clubs. RL players in England are at least 30% poorer in real terms on average than they were at the outset of the SC. This is an appalling record of financial failure. If it continues then the game will inevitably go back to being semi-pro.