What are your reservations regarding Stephens Zig?

Woolf followed the model Wigan used with regard to Williams. Personally, I would give every prospective half back a run at hooker to toughen them up and improve their defensive technique.

Vaughan is 19. Robertson and Whitby are 17/18. I checked for their ages on the club site but none given, I'm basing this on the fact they both played for the Scholars in 2022.

Yeah good shout, I remember that Wigan did that with Williams.

It aggravates me that such information is not posted on the websites of the clubs after all, we are not asking for a bank account or their rate of pay.

I am not sure that he is mobile enough or that his size will be a major asset when playing first team. He reminds me of Samy Kibula. Obviously, the lad may prove me wrong. Good luck to him.

That's often the problem when a player is stepping up from a level where they have obvious physical advantages. I suppose it depends to a large degree on attitude. I think Junior is showing that at the moment. I haven't seen Stephens play so can't comment on him individually but I think that goes for most young players regardless of size. Attitude is everything.

Quote: Zig "I am not sure that he is mobile enough or that his size will be a major asset when playing first team. He reminds me of Samy Kibula. Obviously, the lad may prove me wrong. Good luck to him.'" That’s interesting about his mobility because in this article Derek Traynor, who knows him better than anyone, talks about this speed being a strength of his. Admittedly I’ve only seen him at Castleford the other week but he certainly looked like he could move a bit for a big lad too. https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ne ... -st-helens Now you’ve probably seen much more of him than I have but he doesn’t sound like there’s any concerns internally about his mobility.

Quote: Zig "I am not sure that he is mobile enough or that his size will be a major asset when playing first team. He reminds me of Samy Kibula. Obviously, the lad may prove me wrong. Good luck to him.'" That’s interesting about his mobility because in this article Derek Traynor, who knows him better than anyone, talks about this speed being a strength of his. Admittedly I’ve only seen him at Castleford the other week but he certainly looked like he could move a bit for a big lad too. https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/ne ... -st-helens Now you’ve probably seen much more of him than I have but he doesn’t sound like there’s any concerns internally about his mobility.

I’ve seen Stephen’s once against Wigans academy and we couldn’t deal with him tbh. Will that translate to the first team? Who knows but it’s not going to give him any less of a chance having that sort of physical presence.

What I will say though is that big lads have dominated at academy level before and not been able to translate it to first team rugby. The most devastating academy performances I can recall were from Ryan Bailey at Leeds and he never managed it. I’m not saying he had a bad career, far from it but he was killing teams at that level, going over, through or round players for fun but in the first team he ended up making a career more as a grafter and wind up merchant.

I found this interesting from the Academy coach in relation to what we've been discussing.

“Whether they all go on and reach that potential remains to be seen, But I believe this current crop of young players is as good as we’ve ever had.”

That seems a lot more nuanced and balanced than what Rush has said or what some fans seem to think is an almost foregone conclusion that they will come through and succeed at this level.

I think there's been a lot of outside noise about this crop of players (Stu has named them all) that won't be beneficial to them. The club have previous in getting these transitions right though, and you can see already the likes of Stephens and Vaughan (the two most physically ready) in and around first team environments. Saints have some work to do to successfully integrate them all and the hype around them won't help but it will be an interesting couple of years seeing them all come through and hopefully replace the older guard.

It will be interesting but they will need some of the older players to help them. At this rate some of those experienced heads will be in care homes. Joking apart, these lads need some exposure this season if they are to transition seamlessly there is only so much experience playing on loan can give you. What still amazes me is that we still go on about how we need to protect young players, tell that to the greats like Murphy, Farrell and Gregory who were hardly out of school and yet holding down regular first team places.

Many think (including a number of TV commentators/) that Tommy Makinson is the best winger that SL has seen, but is that true? No doubt our friends over Billinge Hill will be fighting his corner but, I am not sure that the facts support crowning Tommy as the best. Ryan Hall will equal Danny McGuire's super league try scoring record if he scores one try against London, that will give him 247 in 362 appearances (0.68 tries per game). Ryan is followed closely by former Wigan wingman Josh Charnley who has, at present, recorded 238 touchdowns in 288 games (0.83). Both wingers have spent time away from Super League - Ryan for two seasons (2019/2020) and Josh (2017). Tommy has managed to score 183 tries in 294 appearances (0.62) according to the Rugby League Project. However, both players are older than Tommy and have played in SL longer. I am sure other posters will be able to introduce additional facts and arguments, let the discussion begin.