I could be talking nonsense here but I always think a player’s personality has a real impact on how they play and how they cope with certain situations. He doesn’t strike me as the most confident of lads does Byrne and I think he seems like a guy who would really like to have strong leaders around him and to be able to just concentrate on doing his part.

This season, he’s been the only prop that seems to be available every week and the absences of Cooper, Ellis and Havard, combined with the poor form of guys like Singleton and at times, Mago, has meant Byrne is suddenly bearing much more of a burden. I don’t quite think he’s gained enough confidence yet to deal with that very well and he looks to have lost some confidence. He’ll be fine over time, especially if we can get the right support around him both this year and definitely next.

Made up Ellis is signing for 3 years, I think he could become the prop that was promised.

Everything is right with him, size, fitness, stats, attitude and I just think he’s missing a partner at prop. I think he needs someone very similar to him, another Aussie in place of Mago would be nice.

I will happily take a brain fart a season where he whacks someone, much better to reign a prop in rather than get them up for it every week.

Been snooping on Red Vee and Ellis is another rubbish player unfortunately. Not good enough for the bench of a mid table team came one call.

I suggest they go and do a statistical comparison to Lees, LMS, Wingfield, Knowles or even Paasi. It doesn’t make for pretty reading for those guys if Ellis is not good enough for a mid table teams bench.

Totally agree NK.
That’s why I suggested that Waney could try and help him. I’d love Byrne to start with Cooper too on a regular basis.

Wingfield is out of contract at the end of the season. I’d take a punt on him. He’s a Leyther so highly unlikely but I think that he has great potential.

Feels like something has to give with the Saints loose forward role. Him, Bell and Knowles are all natural loose forwards but fitting them all in means one playing prop, second row etc. I wonder if Leigh might throw good money at him? Just reading Asiata is likely to leave at the end of the season, to head back to the NRL. That is one hell of a blow for them.

He’s a Man of Steel contender IMO. Basically involved in every Leigh try, taking the ball to the line and creating huge space for Lam etc.

As NK says above, I think it's the revolving door of players in and out of the pack that's having the biggest effect. Only Byrne, Faz and Smithies have been there on a consistent basis. It's noticeable that Faz hasn't been his usual self either which could also have its origins in the same thing. There is a good prop in Byrne, I have no doubt, but he doesn't strike me as a pack leader at this stage of his career and that's the role he's had to play to a certain extent with the loss of Cooper, long lay offs for Havard and Ellis and Singleton in poor form.

Nevertheless, there are things I'd like to see him do which would help his game, chief of which would be make an adjustment to his running style. He's far too upright going into contact and stops pumping his legs once contact is made which makes him easy to dominate despite his size. We saw an example of how he should be taking it in towards the end of the Warrington game and, if he could do that on a regular basis, he'd make enormous strides (pun intended! ) towards fulfilling his potential.

I know that on Redvee everything Wigan is poor but, even by their standards, that's ridiculous. Ellis is exactly the sort of prop packs are built on. Consistent, great attitude, good metres, solid defence...what's not to like? It staggers me that they laud Lees, who is one of the poorest metre makers in the comp, is inconsistent and, when not playing off the back of Walmsley and Paasi, is almost universally anonymous yet decry someone like Ellis who beats him in every measurable metric! I guess he does lead their much vaunted "line speed" though, so that's ok. And what a stirling job of that he's doing this year too!

Nothing against Lees, or Knowles either for that matter, but I've said many times they are both just good grafters. Neither has outstanding skill, they just (for the most part) work hard and with good intensity. There's nothing wrong with that. All teams need grafters. All teams need solid "7 or 8 out of 10 every week" players too. What gets my goat is how the Redvee lot elevate them beyond what they are whilst,at the same time, tagging players like Ellis as less than they are for fulfilling a similar role. Lees isn't a world-beater. He never will be. That's fine. Knowles isn't much better than Smithies (if indeed he has been better this season which I don't think he has). Neither will ever be Brad Fittler, Paul Sculthorpe or Ellery Hanley. That's fine too

Ellis is a quality player and a good addition to our team and culture and guess what? That's fine as well.

I have held back on saying this for a while, to just give him a bit more time to cement it in my mind but I now think Smithies has gone past Knowles. He’s outperformed him for a season and two thirds now and is adding things to his game. At the same time, I think Knowles has dropped off a little and has struggled to get his form going due to constantly missing games. Overall there isn’t much in it but there is no way I’d swap them.

Whilst I can't claim to have seen every Saints game, in the ones I have seen Knowles has been way off previous year's form. In fact he's been largely anonymous for the most part. One of our Saints posters would be able to comment with more authority than myself but, factoring in what I've seen Saints fans themselves saying; that he shouldn't be their loose forward any more and that it's time for Bell to step up, I would surmise that he hasn't been breaking any pots. They wouldn't suggest moving their self proclaimed "best player in the comp" from his favoured position if he was doing the business there.

With all that in mind I would say Smithies has comfortably overtaken him this season. Even last, several journalists had him over Knowles in their end of season Dream Teams and the statistics supported that view. If he's better (and as I say, my personal view is he hasn't been this season or for large parts of last) it's, at best, marginal. Given their respective ages, I wouldn't swap them either. The problem is, unlike Knowles, I think Smithies is casting his eyes at the NRL.

Until Knowles was mentioned I thought he had retired.
Smithies is a better player now.