True, but there's a bloody good chance. One thing that probably would have occured is the moving of games to other venues (although the pitch would probably have been in better nick)

Correct and Whelan never had any intention of playing at Central Park as he knew that the Council wanted the club to be away from near the town centre and a move to Robin Park was always on the cards as it was promoted by himself at a meeting held at the Riverside Club in 1994.

That's your opinion - and one I wouldn't disagree with too much
However
We'll never know for certain will we?

And after the Shareholders vote and debenture stock Fiasco everything else was irrelevant.

Do you accept though that Monie would not have been back at the club if it weren't for Whelan?

I thought it was Mike Nolan's idea to bring Monie back? He invited him to a meeting at his home near Haydock Park racecourse and offered him the job in late 97. Nolan stood down mid 98 over disagreements with Whelan regarding signings for 97 and idiot Peter Norbury the new chairman sacked Monie in 99 after about 8 games. It was also Norbury that resulted in Robbie McCormack leaving after one year. He wanted to stay but Norbury offered him much less money which he refused and Monie had a bust up with Norbury over it resulting in Norbury finally agreeing to an improved offer but when Monie put it to McCormack, he refused saying he felt insulted.

When Monie first came in at the end of the 97 season, he said the club was in a right mess and unrecognisable from the club he left a few years earlier. I imagine Eric Hughes played a huge part in the drop in standards. What on Earth was we thinking giving him the head coaches job?

When he had those conversations who was the owner?
We all know that Whelan was ultimately in charge and although Mo for example came back late 99 until 2007 it was Whelan who as the owner was ultimately in charge.

Monie only came back because of Whelan, he would never have come back under Robinson. That's the point I was making

You cant blame Norbury as Whelans stooge for sacking Monie, when it was another one of Whelans stooges that got him to come in the first place.

As for the club being a complete shambles, he was right, but dont blame Eric Hughes. He was only part of the issue. Who appointed him? Who sacked West at the wrong time? Who employed Dorohay? Who continued to spend money on many numerous signings that, in which ever way you look at it from 94/95 ish onwards we didnt have the money to actually buy.
And that's before I go into the many other issues financially and legally we found ourselves in 96/97 that ultimately led to Whelans takeover.

I'm no Whelan fan by a long way, and Ian Leneghan beats them both hands down. But Robinson made some terrible decisions and was a massive part of the reason the club was in a shambles

My comment about the Council wanting the club away from near the town centre was not a opinion, but a fact confirmed to me at the time by a leading Councillor.

As for John Monie, he was indeed made Coach by Whelan, but unlike the time he first came to the club, he did not get the same financial support from Whelan for better quality players that he had from the gang of four when they ran the club.

Never tightfisted though, where his beloved Latic's was concerned!

Why you changing the subject again?
I only said that originally that Monie wouldn't have been here if it wasn't for Whelan (I don't like him either)
But we can hardly criticise the Whelan's Stooge that sacked him when it was only because another one of Whelan's Stooges got him to come in the first place.

As for tight fisted, as much as I don't like him he inherited/purchased a Poop Storm from Robinson
He did invest in Moore/Bell/Betts/Maestrov etc.
We managed to keep it in place year 1 (9icon_cool.gif but when those contracts kicked in that Robinson/Connolly (Not sure about Rads?) had signed with the ARL and we paid over the odds to get them back then we had to lose certain players.
Paul went (Although I do think he wanted to go anyway)
And the reinvestment in 99 wasn't "Great" although I don't think it was too bad (Florimo etc.)
And I'm pretty sure the investment in Newton/Peters/Renouf/Dallas/Johns/Lam/Furner etc. wasn't too bad? Plus the retention of Connolly/Farrell/Rads/Betts etc.

But at a time when the cap was really kicking in the top players took too much of the cap space and left little for the rest
This was where the cap was mismanaged over the next 4/5 years and led to 2005/6/7 debacle

Neither Whelan nor Lindsay could manage the cap. They just expected to throw money about and bring back the glory days.

They weren't too far away with the number of finals we competed in TBH.

Together in their first 5 years 00/04 they made 1 final each year and unfortunately that only manifested 1 trophy - Which I think is very unlucky given the Quality we had - We also had to compete with initially 2 then 3 of the Best clubs sides the countries seen in the SL era in Bradford/Saints & Leeds.

The trouble was though, the lack of cap management, the lack of squad depth which led to the Youth not being looked after correctly was a Ticking Timebomb

First of all I don't believe we should underestimate how badly the Mike Gregory situation was dealt with
And as the injury crisis and the Millward situation came together which initiated Newton leaving etc. the whole House seemed to crumble.

We threw money at it again in 2005/6 which didn't work for a number of reasons (Moran/Calderwood/Feka/Richards/Fletcher etc.) and it took more money to rescue us from it (Fielden/Dobson etc.) which in turn Hamstrung us 2007/08

I've said previously that the fans forum start of 2008 was alarming - How much % of the cap was being spent on such a small % of players.
Leneghan asked for 2 years to sort it so he could redistribute and retain the youth - He wasn't far off

Exactly my point. Our cap management was dreadful.

Im not sure how much Whelan was in charge of signings. He may of owned the club but from what i see in Monies book, it was the chairman that was in control of that side of things. Monie himself says he fought the chairman (Norbury, not Whelan) and lost.

Regardless of who was ultimately to blame, had we kept Monie through into the early 00's, i would put my house on us going on another run of silverware. The calibre of players we had from 2000-2003ish with only one challenge cup to show for it is criminal.

Whelan always had the final say on signings both at the Latic's and at Wigan.

Norbury was only a front man for Whelan and any fight by Monie over signings would have been in reality, a fight with Whelan.

So Monie not wanting to come back to the club at the request of Lindsay would have more to do with Whelan's ownership of the club and not Norbury!

Agree, As Whelan wasn't patient enough with a lot of the issues he'd inherited - If he'd have waited another 6months who knows as Mo would have handled them both better IMO
However still stands, Monie would not have come back under Robinson

But Whelan still owned the club when Lindsay offered Monie his job back. If it was really Whelan who sacked Monie, and he was really in charge of that side of things, why did he allow Lindsay to try and bring back the guy he had sacked 6 months earlier? It makes no sense. The only thing that changed from Monie being sacked to being offered the job back was that Norbury went and Lindsay came in.

Perhaps it was because it was Lindsay who suggested to Whelan that they get Monie back, but after the way he had been treated by Whelan who had sacked him via his stooge Norbury, he no longer wanted to come back to a club now under the control of a owner for whom he had no respect.

Very good at getting others to do his dirty work was Whelan!